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  1. #1
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Wink You May Loathe Independents, But You Need Us

    Oh, do you need us. I was poll-smoking (as is my want) when I stumbled across this gem:

    Although the gap between Republican and Democratic allegiances speaks to the GOP's current troubles, Kohut said that the shift mostly reflects the defection of independents from the party rather than a more favorable overall assessment of the Democratic Party.

    Full article under the spoil tag, since the source requires registration. Full poll available in handy-dandy PDF format.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Republican Party loyalty in decline since 2002

    By Janet Hook, Times Staff Writer
    12:31 PM PDT, March 22, 2007

    WASHINGTON -- Public allegiance to the Republican Party has plunged since the second year of George W. Bush's presidency, as attitudes have edged away from some of the conservative values that fueled GOP political dominance for more than a decade, a major new survey has found.

    The survey, by the nonpartisan Pew Research Center for People and the Press, found a "dramatic shift" in political party identification since 2002, when Republicans and Democrats were at rough parity. Now, half of those surveyed identified with or leaned toward Democrats, while only 35% aligned with Republicans.

    What's more, the survey found the public attitudes are drifting toward Democrats' values: Support for government aid to the disadvantaged has grown since the mid-1990s, skepticism about the use of military force has increased and support for traditional family values has edged down.

    Those findings suggest that Republicans' political challenges reach beyond the unpopularity of the war in Iraq and Bush.

    "Iraq has played a large part; the pushback on the Republican Party has to do with Bush, but there are other things going on here that Republicans will have to contend with," said Andrew Kohut, director of the Pew Research Center. "There is a difference in the landscape."

    A key question is whether those trends signal a broad and lasting change in the balance of power between the parties or just a mood swing that will soon pass or moderate. It remains to be seen whether Democrats can capitalize on Republicans' weakness and gain a durable position of political dominance.

    "This is the beginning of a Democratic opportunity," said Rep. Rahm Emanuel (D-Ill.), chairman of the House Democratic Caucus. "The question is whether we blow it or not."

    Whit Ayres, a GOP pollster, said he believed the Pew poll exaggerates his party's problems and that the situation will improve as attention shifts to choosing Bush's successor.

    "Once we have new nominees to redefine the Republican and Democratic party in 2008, then we will have a far more level playing field than we have today," Ayres said.

    But other Republicans believe such poll results signal a clear end to the era of GOP domination that began with President Reagan's election, continued when the party took control of Capitol Hill in 1994, and helped elect Bush twice to the White House.

    "There are cycles in history where one party or one movement ascends for a while and then it sews the seeds of its own self-destruction," said Bruce Bartlett, a conservative analyst and author of a 2006 book "Impostor: How George W. Bush Bankrupted American and Betrayed the Reagan Legacy."

    "It's clear we have come to an end of a Republican conservative era," he said.

    The Pew poll measured the views of 2,007 adults from Dec. 12 through Jan. 9. It has a margin of error of plus or minus 2.5 percentage points. The study of long-term shifts in political attitudes and values is part of series of periodic reports dating back to 1987.

    The gap between Republican and Democratic identification, which Pew measured by counting people who are leaning toward one party or the other as well as those with a firm allegiances, is the widest spread between the parties since Pew began since the studies.

    Although the gap between Republican and Democratic allegiances speaks to the GOP's current troubles, Kohut said that the shift mostly reflects the defection of independents from the party rather than a more favorable overall assessment of the Democratic Party.

    The proportion expressing a positive view of Democrats has declined since January 2001 by six points, to 54%. But the public's regard for Republicans cratered during the Bush years, as the proportion holding a favorable view of the GOP dropped 15 points to 41%.

    Republicans seem to be paying a price for a growing sense of dissatisfaction with the state of the country during the Bush years. Three out of 10 people said they were satisfied with the way things are going in the country--a 25-point drop in the last seven years.

    While Republicans rode to political power calling for smaller government, support for government action to help the disadvantaged has risen since the GOP took control of Congress in 1994. Back then, 57% believed the government had a responsibility to take care of people who cannot take care of themselves; now 69% believe that.

    On the other hand support for Bush's signature issue--a strong, proactive military posture--has waned since 2002, when 62% said that the best way to ensure peace is through military strength. Now, only 49% believe that.

    On social issues, the survey found that support for some key conservative positions has edged down: The people who said they supported "old-fashioned values about family and marriage" dipped from 84% in 1994 to 76%.

    Support for allowing school boards to have the right to fire homosexual teachers dropped from 39% in 1994 to 28% in 2007.

  2. #2
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: You May Loathe Independents, But You Need Us

    Maybe that'll show the stupid GOP congresscritters.

    Back then, 57% believed the government had a responsibility to take care of people who cannot take care of themselves; now 69% believe that.
    Gah, increasing support of socialism is troubling.

    Especially the stupid ' the poor are getting poorer'- GAH! no, they're not! Even a widening rich-poor gap doesn't mean the poor are getting poorer.

    Crazed Rabbit
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

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    A very, very Senior Member Adrian II's Avatar
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    Default Re: You May Loathe Independents, But You Need Us

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    Oh, do you need us.
    Forgive me for raining on you party - I have doused you in confetti elsewhere, so bear with me.

    1. Who is 'us'?
    2. Independent from what?

    Don't you think there may be hordes of independents out there who want to be totally, rigourously independent from, say, the Lemur's view on budgetary conservatism?
    The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott

  4. #4
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: You May Loathe Independents, But You Need Us

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian II
    Don't you think there may be hordes of independents out there who want to be totally, rigourously independent from, say, the Lemur's view on budgetary conservatism?
    Nope, all of the independents became so to be just like me. It's an established fact.

    Heh, obviously we wouldn't be indies if we fit comfortably into an ideological bracket. What I was trying to get at, and what this poll supports, is that in their long tenure in power, Republicans managed to lose the independents who tipped the scale in their favor in the first place. This is interesting, because if you listened to the rhetoric coming from our esteemed right-wing posters, you would have believed that indies are weak and useless, that all Republicans who don't toe the party line are R.I.N.O.s, and that once the purges are complete, and ideological purity has been attained, everything will reek with joy.

    Well phooey on yooey. Lose the independents, you lose the nation.

  5. #5
    RIP Tosa, my trolling end now Senior Member Devastatin Dave's Avatar
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    Default Re: You May Loathe Independents, But You Need Us

    Strange, it seems to me that over 95% of your posts/threads lean more towards the Democratic party's ideology. I believe you calling yourself independent is like calling Bill Clinton a faithful husband. No offense my prehensiled tailed friend.
    RIP Tosa

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    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Re: You May Loathe Independents, But You Need Us

    Quote Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
    Strange, it seems to me that over 95% of your posts/threads lean more towards the Democratic party's ideology. I believe you calling yourself independent is like calling Bill Clinton a faithful husband. No offense my prehensiled tailed friend.
    Mind you Dave, if someone of your forthright view describes Lemur as merely "leaning towards Democrat ideology" I'd take that as a sure bet he's independent. Real Euro-weenie lefties like me only get you frothing at the mouth with fury, until we offer a

    "If there is a sin against life, it consists not so much in despairing as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this one."
    Albert Camus "Noces"

  7. #7
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: You May Loathe Independents, But You Need Us

    Quote Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
    Strange, it seems to me that over 95% of your posts/threads lean more towards the Democratic party's ideology. I believe you calling yourself independent is like calling Bill Clinton a faithful husband. No offense my prehensiled tailed friend.
    None taken! I must make a confession — I am contrarian by nature. Put me in a roomful of Earth First reps, and I'll inevitably start expounding on the joys of eating meat. Place me among pro-lifers and I begin to sound pro-choice. If I hang out with lefties, I sound like a righty. It's a problem with my temperament that I have no intention of fixing.

    We have a large number of vocal, articulate, well-reasoning right-wing posters in the Backroom. Compound that with the fact that my nation has spent years dominated by Republicans, and, well, you do the math ...

    And your personal observation doesn't even touch on the theme of the thread. Do you feel that Republicans can pursue ideological purity at the expense of indies?

  8. #8
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: You May Loathe Independents, But You Need Us

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    None taken! I must make a confession — I am contrarian by nature. Put me in a roomful of Earth First reps, and I'll inevitably start expounding on the joys of eating meat. Place me among pro-lifers and I begin to sound pro-choice. If I hang out with lefties, I sound like a righty. It's a problem with my temperament that I have no intention of fixing.
    ...so you're happiest in a room full of people, many of whom are starting to view you as a flaming rectal sphincter....

    Have you been talking to someone about this, oh Lemury one?

    Masochism is usually tied up with sex and sexuality, but for you it's clearly linked to smashing other people's archetypes. Maybe a few 50-minute hours of chatting with some friendly Jungian?



    Enjoy your contrarianism you silly mugwump.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

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