Military Intelligence

[Redleg]

Kafir, I still don't get your point Maybe it's because you use many abbreviations that confuse me, and words I don't know like Pueblo. What is ROK? Where is Camp Casey? And what is... I mean... like... where's the... I mean....!

The USS Pueblo was a ship seized by North Korea, North Korea accused the United States of spying using this ship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Pueblo_(AGER-2)

Camp Casey is the forward base of the United States Army, 2nd Infantry Division in South Korea. During the 1960-1970's it was the hub of United States Army activity to the posts that the United States was responsible for on the DMZ. Sometime in the late 1980's the United States removed all personal from active patrols and guard posts along the DMZ and turned the responsiblity over to the South Korean Army.

[Tribesman]

The USS Pueblo was a ship seized by North Korea, North Korea accused the United States of spying using this ship.

or more accrately the North Koreans accused the US ship of spying while inside its territorial waters .

[Redleg]

Nm -

[Tribesman]

Neither side came to agreement about that particuler subject.

They did , and they apologised for it to get the crew back .
Its funny isn't it , when the Pueblo was attacked the US said it only recognises the 12 mile limit not the 50 miles that N.Korea claims so since it was boarded 15 miles out it must be in international waters .
Yet when the Maddox was 8 miles out the US says it only recognises the 3 mile limit not the 12 miles that N.Vietnam claims , so it must be in international waters .
Wierd thing these territorial waters , as the Royal Navy found out yet again .

[Adrian II]

Since this is a Korea trivia thread, I have three things to contribute:

1. In 2002 the DPRK claimed to be the first in the world able to clone rabbits. I am not surprised. From an economic point of view, rabbits are the most useless animals to clone. If anything there are too many of them already. But then the DPRK itself is useless. And the DPRK itself is, in fact, one DPRK too many.

2. The DPRK has a Committee for Solidarity with the World People. They either help us, you see, or they make sure we know they are there for us should we need them.

3. The name. How on earth did they come up with that in 1948? I suppose Kim wanted to call it 'Me-state of Korea'. The Russians then advised him that 'Republic' would cut a better figure among folks liable to fall for the trick. Since that applied only to semi-literates, Kim insisted to add the term 'People's'. The Russians then told him that two wrongs don't make a right, whereas three wrongs do! Hence it became 'Democratic People's Republic of Korea'.

[Husar]

That's hilarious Adrian.

And Tribesman, isn't that the same with mostly anything political that it only works as long as others accept(or have to accept) it?
Think of Belgium, they were neutral before WW1, yet we simply invaded them because our plan was more important to us than their neutrality.
It's just like alliances, there is no universal power forcing you to stick to them, but breaking them makes you look like a big liar, then again some people just don't care.
So states can only claim territorial waters if they have the navy to force them down someone else's throat and other navies can only tell them to have less territorial waters if they can manage to enter them without having their ships taken over, I think that's the way it usually works.

[Tribesman]

Think of Belgium, they were neutral before WW1, yet we simply invaded them because our plan was more important to us than their neutrality.
It's just like alliances, there is no universal power forcing you to stick to them, but breaking them makes you look like a big liar, then again some people just don't care.

Yep but the simply invading them swung the tide didn't it . Britain would have a hardtime selling the war on the basis of activating its alliance on the trigger of Serbia not handing over the terrorists , but Germany triggered another alliance and with the combination of the Rules of engagement it drew up to avoid the problems it had encountered years before in France which meant it slaughtered civilians just in case they might decide to take up arms they really gave the brits a propoganda cause celebre to go to war on .

Anyhow , I knew I should have quoted the whole post before Red removed it .
But yes Red from a purely American point of view its an open and shut case , no agreements were reached and it was definately all the N.Koreans , the Pueblo was only maritime research vessel studying the migratory habits of the lesser spotted red herring .
Though to address the point Kafir was making (I think????) yep , the intelligence really screwed up there , what sort of muppet sends the spy ship the latest sports results , but doesn't send them reports on important events right next to them that are very relevant to their job?????

[Redleg]

They did , and they apologised for it to get the crew back .

LOL your stuck on attempting to one-up manship.

The United States apologized for spying, not for the disagreement over the boundary of the international waters.

From the Wikipedia article alreadly linked.

"Following a written admission by the US that Pueblo had been spying, an apology and an assurance that the US would not spy in the future, the North Korean government decided to release the 82 remaining crew members. On 23 December 1968 the crew was taken by buses to the DMZ border with South Korea and ordered to walk south across the "Bridge of No Return". Exactly 11 months after being taken prisoner, the Captain led the long line of crewmen, followed at the end by the Executive Officer, Lieutenant Ed Murphy, the last man across the bridge. The US then verbally retracted the ransom admission, apology, and assurance. Meanwhile the North Koreans blanked out the paragraph above the signature which read: "and this hereby receipts for 82 crewmen and one dead body". Commander Lloyd M. Bucher, Commanding Officer of the Pueblo and all the officers and crew appeared before a Navy Court of Inquiry. A court martial was recommended for the CO and the Officer in Charge of the Research Department, Lt Steve Harris. But the Secretary of the Navy, John H. Chafee, rejected the recommendation, stating, "They have suffered enough." Commander Bucher was never found guilty of any indiscretions and continued his Navy career until retirement."