Why make factions and then not use them?

[Third spearman from the left]

Hi Everyone

Something I've been trying to work out recently is why CA keeps making some factions unplayable? For me it started in MTW with say the Swiss, now in RTW its Dacia or the Macedonians, BI has Celts and others and I'm sure MTW2 has the same.

I know that these factions can be unlocked quite easily, but for me that makes the decision to lock them even stranger. Surely the more factions to play as the longer the game lasts and the more people you please?

Another small point on RTW & MTW2 does anyone like this new (I'm still working through my first long Juill campaign while playing BI AND ATW so its all still new) system of having to finish a campaign before you get to access more factions?

[caravel]

I don't know of anyone that likes unlockable factions, which is why most people do some text editing and enable all the factions to start with. See frogbeastegg's guide for how to do this.

As to Minor Factions, I'm not at all sure as to the reasoning behind it.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Hi Third Spearman from the Left,
The CA's explaination is that the non-playable factions had un-interesting tech-tree and did not have a large enough variety of units to make them fun, henceforth they decided to make them non-playable. However, I find this un-true, Macedon had one of the most interesting unit and tech-trees, after Rome and the Selucids, in R:TW yet it was made non-playable. The same is true for Pontos, Thrace and Armenia who have very hard to manage starting positions which, in my opinion, adds to their interest immensly and their playabablility. In my opinion, being able to play as all factions, would have been a wonderful addition to a TW game.

I think the policy of unlockble faction is, however, there to force you to play them first - probably because the other factions are less interesting, this is true for the Romans in Rome due to the senate missions, offices, popular standing, senate standing and the Marian Reforms. If you play as the best faction first then the chances are you will immediately thing, wow, what a cool game and get somebody else to play it, more than you would should you make the effort to play another faction such as The Greek Cities which is resonably dull - phalanx beats all removing the challenge. Although I am against this, I can see the CA's reasoning behind it.

Hope this helps you, cheers!

[caravel]

...should you make the effort to play another faction such as The Greek Cities which is resonably dull - phalanx beats all removing the challenge.

The Greek Cities are a nice faction though indeed quite predictable with their somewhat overpowered hoplites. The same goes for the Macedonians I suppose. The more interesting of the factions from my experience so far, which is rather limited, are the "Barbarian" factions. They seem to provide the most challenge. I dislike the Roman factions, due to the restrictive senate and it's insane missions (I dislike games where I'm given a "quest" to carry out to earn extra brownie points) and I don't find them particularly challenging anyway (my Gauls have almost wiped them off the map already, I've actually prolonged their existence just to see what more they can throw at me!). There are a few factions that are so ahistorical they are difficult to come to terms with, such as the "Spanish" and "Egyptians" for example. I really need to download RTR again, I remember that being a pretty good mod. EB runs too slowly on my PC and while I like my historical accuracy as much as the next man, I do find it overly complex.

[Third spearman from the left]

Hi Third Spearman from the Left,
The CA's explaination is that the non-playable factions had un-interesting tech-tree and did not have a large enough variety of units to make them fun, henceforth they decided to make them non-playable. However, I find this un-true, Macedon had one of the most interesting unit and tech-trees, after Rome and the Selucids, in R:TW yet it was made non-playable. The same is true for Pontos, Thrace and Armenia who have very hard to manage starting positions which, in my opinion, adds to their interest immensly and their playabablility. In my opinion, being able to play as all factions, would have been a wonderful addition to a TW game.

Hope this helps you, cheers!

To be honest CA'S explanation is pants and the sooner they give me a job the better

I think you hit on a very important point which is sometimes it's not the tech trees which are important but the start positions.

Some players like super hard conditions to test their steal and what could be harder than a faction with a limited tech, surrounded by bigger factions and very little cash?

It might not suit everyone but its just about choice for players which IMO makes for longer lasting games.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Some players like super hard conditions to test their steal and what could be harder than a faction with a limited tech, surrounded by bigger factions and very little cash?

That's one of those nasty issues with R:TW - it was, from what I have seen, designed with a younger audience in mind compared to M:TW. Younger audiences don't often want to test their steal or resolve and prefer to "go steamroller" across the map - the "rebel" faction's easy destruction is clear proof of that problem.

[LuckyDog Trojan]

I agree with Caravel and Omanes in that the barbarian factions are tougher and more challenging at the outset and, as a result, are quite fun to play.

Likewise, I can side with Third Spearman. ALL the factions should be playable - and if you want me to play one of the Roman families first to unlock them, so be it.

[Barbarossa82]

That's one of those nasty issues with R:TW - it was, from what I have seen, designed with a younger audience in mind compared to M:TW. Younger audiences don't often want to test their steal or resolve and prefer to "go steamroller" across the map - the "rebel" faction's easy destruction is clear proof of that problem.

You've hit the nail right on the head there Omanes. From RTW onwards, CA have re-oriented themselves towards a younger, more thrill-seeking market more interested in graphics and uber-units than in serious stategy and historical veracity.

One can't really blame them for this; they are a commercial enterprise and their success with their later games shows that, from a business perspective, that was a sound policy.

Nevertheless we can mourn the death of the high-quality strategy in STW and MTW, and be grateful that the series continues to be relatively highly moddable.