My First Campaign as Egypt

[Swordsman]

Using the 2H fix, shield fix.

First try as a Muslim faction. Won on turn 120 using H/H, but it was pretty interesting at the end.
- I was very lucky in that the Mongols headed for Russia (#1 at the time) and never did wander down my way.
- I wiped out the first Crusade called against me (several factions), and never did have another one called against me. Seemed to be going to Toulouse, Rome, etc.
- Somehow I got "suckered" into taking Venice, as even though the Venetians only had 3 provinces they seemed capable of turning out "infinite stacks" and just kept coming. I say suckered as that caused a head-to-head with the Pope, and HIS stacks were truly awesome.

Bottom line is that I felt even my "best" stacks were heavily outclassed towards the end, and I was only winning battles by really focusing on favorable terrain, etc. The Pope knocked any cockiness out of me the first time we met with roughly equal numbers.

I won in the end by bribing a rebel castle just before taking Province #45. BTW, first time I've EVER been able to bribe a rebel city/castle. Tried it more out of curiosity than any hope of success.

So I won, but frankly wasn't all that pleased with myself. The Mongols stayed away, only 1 crusade, and at the end there were fairly impressive amounts of Catholic stacks loaded with high-level units (DFKs, etc.) headed my way. I rushed to get #45 rather than try and fight all that.

But hey-- a win is a win!

[_Tristan_]

You had it easy...

Thank Allah and go on to VH/VH...

You're certainly capable of it...

[Unorthodox]

What I don't understand is how you'd be outclassed by the Pope's armies. The Pope has the standard Italian faction troops WITHOUT the specific goodies like Venetian Heavy Infantry, Norman Knights or Genoese Crossbowmen that the other factions get. They have the normal Italian units (Italian Militia, Italian Spear Militia, Pavise Crossbows, Men-At-Arms) and then the Swiss Guard. Nothing else. The Swiss Guard are good, but otherwise they lack the added cavalry punch of the Sicilians, the very powerful infantry of the Venetians, and the extra power of the Genoese Crossbows. They also lack mobility, as most of their armies will have been packed with militia on foot.

Given that in the late period you'd have units like Tabardariiya, Royal Mamluks, Mamluk Archers, and Naffatun, I don't really see how the Papal armies would be able to defeat you. They don't have anything mobile enough to cope with Mamluk Archers. You have Tabardariiya and Naffatun to counter their heaviest troops. You have better cavalry than them in your Royal Mamluks.

I haven't actually fought as either side in a Pope/Egypt battle, but I've played as both factions, so this bewilders me a little bit.

What did the Papal armies mostly consist of, and what did you field?

[Swordsman]

Unorthodox: Papal armies were heavy on papal guard and swiss guard. My problem was getting my best units to the fight. Not so much an issue of them beating me, but after two or three good battles my stockpile of good units in the West was heavily attrited. Even though I aggressively tech'ed up, I had to move these high-end units all the way from Constantinople/Bran or the Middle East. Either way I found my high-end units being attrited faster than they could be replaced. And my experience was that taking on the Pope without a good number of high-end units is no fun at all...

So I'd typically have around 4 Saracens, 4 Mamluk HA's, 2 Mamluk Cav and whatever else I could scrape together (Archers, Naffutan,etc.). After the first couple of battles, any existing Royal Mamluks, etc., were pretty much gone. Classic attrition-- Pope could afford lots of losses, while every high-end unit of mine had to be trucked in from a great sdistance. In another 20 turns or so I probably could have tech'ed up someplace closer, but I was getting fed up with it so went for the win. Not to mention those OTHER Catholic armies sauntering my way.

[vonsch]

Unorthodox: Papal armies were heavy on papal guard and swiss guard. My problem was getting my best units to the fight. Not so much an issue of them beating me, but after two or three good battles my stockpile of good units in the West was heavily attrited. Even though I aggressively tech'ed up, I had to move these high-end units all the way from Constantinople/Bran or the Middle East. Either way I found my high-end units being attrited faster than they could be replaced. And my experience was that taking on the Pope without a good number of high-end units is no fun at all...

So I'd typically have around 4 Saracens, 4 Mamluk HA's, 2 Mamluk Cav and whatever else I could scrape together (Archers, Naffutan,etc.). After the first couple of battles, any existing Royal Mamluks, etc., were pretty much gone. Classic attrition-- Pope could afford lots of losses, while every high-end unit of mine had to be trucked in from a great sdistance. In another 20 turns or so I probably could have tech'ed up someplace closer, but I was getting fed up with it so went for the win. Not to mention those OTHER Catholic armies sauntering my way.

Pope is pure infantry, isn't he? I mean in practice. That means I would bring all Mamluk Archers to the party like I do with other Italian factions. They slaughter the infantry and preserve most of their own force. Foot archers that are skirmishing can't shoot, so the pavise corssbows don't get off many shots. And if you bag the whole army, the morale penalties are very high. They really get nervous when surrounded. I've done this a lot as Turks. Did it once with Egypt against Milan on a Crusade also. Worked great. Heroic victory in the latter case at Jerusalem. If you run out of arrows, take the loss and retreat. Preserve your horse archers! Repeat. If you keep 90+% of your horse archers alive each time, you will rapidly wear out the enemy stock of units and surpass their replacement capacity.

And capture an advanced city/castle locally to build replacements in. ;~) Grab one away from the front line... behind it. Usually they have small(er) garrisons.

[Swordsman]

Pope is pure infantry, isn't he? I mean in practice. That means I would bring all Mamluk Archers to the party like I do with other Italian factions. They slaughter the infantry and preserve most of their own force. Foot archers that are skirmishing can't shoot, so the pavise corssbows don't get off many shots. And if you bag the whole army, the morale penalties are very high. They really get nervous when surrounded. I've done this a lot as Turks. Did it once with Egypt against Milan on a Crusade also. Worked great. Heroic victory in the latter case at Jerusalem. If you run out of arrows, take the loss and retreat. Preserve your horse archers! Repeat. If you keep 90+% of your horse archers alive each time, you will rapidly wear out the enemy stock of units and surpass their replacement capacity.

And capture an advanced city/castle locally to build replacements in. ;~) Grab one away from the front line... behind it. Usually they have small(er) garrisons.

You are right about the all HA army. That would have been doable. But to hit and run would have almost insured the loss of Venice. Everyone seemed to have some type of cannon and they weren't waiting to siege when they had them (to my surprise). Plus (and this is just me) I just tend to play with more balanced armies. Not to beat a dead horse , but I was looking at POTENTIALLY getting hit with 6-7 full stacks of high-end units (Milan, HRE, France, Papacy) in a period of 2 turns.

Ragusa and Insbruck were surprisingly undeveloped castles-- probably due to all the infighting, and maybe the flip side of only one crusade against me. And seemingly out of character, all the remaining "good" cities were well-defended-- and all with large/multiple stacks nearby. So basically it was go for the win immediately or settle in for a long slugging match-- which actually might have been fun, but guess I wimped out.

[TeutonicKnight]

Swordsman, or any Eggy specialist...

I just started my first Eggy campaign last night. Didn't have a lot of time, so I autocalced my way on a Jihad to Antioch. Tonight I'm going to put the time in to actually fight my own battles.

How do you think the Eggy units fight compared to Euro units? I've done a Spanish and a Danish campaign so far before this, and I've played MTW and RTW extensively. This unit lineup is not as similar to either of those as I would have thought. They look to be more cavalry and infantry focused now.

Is it possible to rely on my peasant archer and archer militia to deliver decent damage? Can my units, esp in the early game, stand up one to one against crusader units (I've got the first one heading towards Jerusalem).

From reviewing the units, I plan to rely on Saracen Infantry for my main line, and then Mamluks for cav and horse archers (not real good with HA though). Then I'll fill in with Archer Militia for missiles.

Oh and how often can I start a Jihad?

One thing I am enjoying is the economy. The starting cash kept me afloat, and now that I'm holding Antioch and allied to the Turks, I'm doing rather well. Compared to my first experiences in Europe, this is a refreshing change.

[dumas]

What I don't understand is how you'd be outclassed by the Pope's armies. The Pope has the standard Italian faction troops WITHOUT the specific goodies like Venetian Heavy Infantry, Norman Knights or Genoese Crossbowmen that the other factions get.

Special units of Italian factions are overrated, because they require castles and they're not that much better than what they could get straight out of their cities. Mounted and Dismounted Lances are good enough units to cover your heavy infantry and calvary needs. Pavise Crossbow Militia isn't as good as Genoese Crossbowmen, but they're still good enough that it's normally not worth it for Milan to build a castle just for that unit.

Unlike special units of other factions, Papal/Swiss Guards pop right out of the cities and clearly outclass any other faction's comparable units: There are no spear unit like the Papal Guards and only the Scot Noble Pikes come close to Swiss Guards.

[Carl]

Special units of Italian factions are overrated, because they require castles and they're not that much better than what they could get straight out of their cities.

Completly false when talking about VHI, NOTHING foot based that isn't a pike is better than them in melee overall.

Also, the reasone Genoese Crossbows aren't so uber is because in tests i've found a missile attack ov over 10+AP is the same as a missile attack of 10+AP. thus everything from Pavise Crossbow Militia upwards is identical.

[Jambo]

Also, the reasone Genoese Crossbows aren't so uber is because in tests i've found a missile attack ov over 10+AP is the same as a missile attack of 10+AP. thus everything from Pavise Crossbow Militia upwards is identical.

Really? What's the explanation for this?

[BigTex]

Really? What's the explanation for this?

Armor caps out at 11. Going to go out on a limb and saying that the game prevents any AP missile from reducing the armor from half of it's original. Rendering anything higher then 10.5 pretty useless.