On Playing Scotland...

[detroitmechworks]

Hey guys. New person here, just wanted to share some of my thoughts on my favorite faction. (Played venice to unlock, and have been playing scotland since...)

Little things I've noticed.

Highlanders kick ass. Straight up. Their weapons are effective against armor, and it Shows. For a fairly cheap unit, they Tear into dismounted Knights, etc, like a hot knife through butter. (Just personal observation, haven't done any "Tests" to prove it.

The problem with Scottish archers being outranged is easily solved, since TONS of mercenary Crossbowmen are available from the start. (I've rarely seen them run out.)

Border horse are just fun to play with, although they tend to die a bit too quickly, they're great for tying up fast moving units until your Highlanders arrive...

I've found very few uses for the HUGE amount of Pikes you get. Defense, yup, that's it. They seem to take longer than the old Phalanxes from RTW to get set up, so moving them ANYWHERE near the enemy tends to get them out of position. (Which of course results in a general slaughter.) The higher level Pikemen are still fairly good with their swords, but you might as well just get the Swordsmen, since they have a shield.

And I know that there's no difference between the ballista's of various factions, but I would swear that Scotch Ballistas are more accurate... I've had them consistently "Counter-Battery" artillery in 3-4 shots, where when I was playing Venice it seemed to take 10-12...

Plus once you kick out England you've got a lovely moat...

[zstajerski]

hehe
am playing scots also right now ( and papal and... )
hehe
they realy do rule
But i have found a use for huge ammounts of noble pikeman:
i have them on bridges supported by archers and balistas,..
swordsmen give away under "real" cavalry or two-heander attack, SPEARS or PIKES never

And of course as for defending castles or citys... hehe, same shit: they just simply rule

[Xehh II]

I agree Scotland is the best faction to play as.

[SoxSexSax]

IMO they are the joint easiest faction, along with England, due to their starting location and excellent pikes.

Fun, but easy. I personally prefer playing as Poland, as I think they have the most challenging starting position of the catholic nations...plus Polish nobles are some of the best cav in the game IMO.

[Slug For A Butt]

Hmm... Scotland have
highlanders - high attack but no defence to speak of
border horse - just generally suck
pikes - easy meat for longbowmen.
scottish artillery - eating haggis and drinking a few cans of Tennants super strength doesn't make them any more accurate.
merc crossbowmen - doesn't everyone get them?

I find Scotland's unit roster quite poor, which is why it's a challenge to play them. Which is good.

[TevashSzat]

Unit roster isn't as important as position which makes Scotland, normally a more challenging faction alot easier to play on normal due to the defensible nature of Britain

[Slug For A Butt]

I just double checked before I posted first time.
I was right, highlanders get their arses handed to them on a plate by AS or DFK's (so much for "hot butter"). Am I right in thinking the only reason they are about level with DEK's is because of the 2H bug?
I can't see any particularly good Scottish units which, like I said, at least makes for a challenge.
If you want an easy campaign with a safe base, the English are much better equipped for it. AS and longbowmen trounce anything the Scots (and most Europeans until late game) have to offer.
I have tried a couple of Scottish campaigns and it is more of a challenge than the English, but only up to the point where you have that much cash that it doesn't matter what faction you are.

Oh Detroit... Hi and welcome

[detroitmechworks]

Thanks for the welcome...

As I said, hadn't done any tests, just an observation...

(Of course the cost for highlanders is pretty low... One of the main reasons I didn't use them on my first couple campaigns... But I use them so much NOW that I admit to a bit of predjudice... :)

(Cool chain shirt and Kilt combo. What's not to like?)

However, I have seen them do CONSIDERABLE damage to units that are more heavily armored than they are. Yes they often get fairly high casualties... But think about it this way... My el cheapo Highlanders just took out a MUCH more expensive unit, and are pretty cheap to retrain...) (

But, Still, I've taken them on crusade, and they do pretty well... Took Acre and Jerusalem by turn 30... (Shoulda saved a screenshot, durn it...)

And border horse... Yah, they suck in raw stats. But when it's gotta get there NOW... well, for a nice early light cav unit...

And I KNOW there accuricacy is not more accurate... Maybe they're just favored by my tartan desktop... :)

Haven't seen the 2h bug with my highlander nobles, but have with the Galloglaich... (Usually I don't use Ireland for anything other than a nice safe port...)

Overall, yeah, they don't have any "Uber" units. And I agree it does make them more challenging. (Wish that they had got some unit to represent the whole "Scottish Engineer" cliche...) But it's FUN, durn it...

[detroitmechworks]

One more thought...

Scotland is a faction of extremes...

On one hand they have some excellent defensive units... (Noble Pikemen, etc...)

ON the other they have some units that have incredible attack but no defense to speak of (My personal favorites...)

It's an interesting combination, that IMHO works best using Guerilla style tactics. (Yeah, that does make the middle east and north africa harder to win in.)

Terrain is my friend.

(Why am I suddenly seeing guys in kilts whispering mantras... "The trees are my shelter, the trees are my armor, trust in them and I shall fell my enemies...")

[llewellyn]

Hmm... Scotland have
highlanders - high attack but no defence to speak of
border horse - just generally suck
pikes - easy meat for longbowmen.
scottish artillery - eating haggis and drinking a few cans of Tennants super strength doesn't make them any more accurate.
merc crossbowmen - doesn't everyone get them?

I find Scotland's unit roster quite poor, which is why it's a challenge to play them. Which is good.

man there units are to easy to use, it makes the game so much eaiser in SP, but i agree in MP they are a bit more difficult to play

[Didz]

Ah! another mercenary crossbow fan.

I would suggest that one possible use for the pikes is to keep the enemy cavalry off your crossbowmen. Just use them as a mobile castle wall.

Incidently, one thing I've learnt the hard way is that the 'skirmish' option on mercenary crossbow units doesn't work very well. They usually stand about far to long before scarpering.

I don't bother with it anymore and deploy my crossbowmen forward of the battle line at first so that they can fire straight into the faces of the advancing enemy, then decide for myself when best to conduct a passage of lines to move them to the rear. If you time it right they will kite all the enemies precious cavalry straight into your pikes and spears.

The fact that your battle line has opened ranks to let the crossbowmen through actually seems to increase the level of slaughter amongst the horsemen as they seem to bury themselves right into the middle of your infantry and then end up fighting three or four men each. That seems to work with spearmen anyway, pikemen might be a bit more fragile due to the length of their weapons.

[Indy1958]

Gentlemen:

Good morning from Canada!! I hope this finds you and yours well. As for me, I could complain...yadda, yadda, yadda.

Just a quick historical question here: Besides the English and the Rebel factions, with whom else were the Scots at war?

Live long and prosper, take care and thank you kindly!!!!

Sincerely yours always,

Indy.

[Harve]

Im not sure- maybe the Vikings earlier or did they even exist then? They weren't destined for war with anyone else in the game so i take it as that in real life.

The Scots are very easy once you kick England out Britain but after that it became easy and i quickly got bored

[detroitmechworks]

Historically,

The Scots had an alliance with France at several points.

They also had some troubles with the Danes, but that was when they were the vikings.

Essentially Scotland historically never had the colonial/territorial aims that many of the other factions did. (Too much infighting between the clans. Think STW, but with lower tech and smaller armies...)

Hmm, that might be a fun mod. Clans - Total Grudge Holding for centuries...

[Didz]

Historically, I think the main thing the Scots can claim credit for is surviving as a nation at all. Parts of Scotland were occupied by Vikings, and at other times by Irish Tribes and Norsemen(if thats the correct term for a tribe from anywhere around the Baltic Coast. However apart from fighting amongst themselves for most of the time mostly over cattle, the Scots managed to resist the Romans and just about everyone else who tried to subjugate them until the late 18th Century.

They even made a good attempt at invading England at one point and might have succeeded if they hadn't been more trusting of a Scottish double agent to sold them a lie about the English army being enormous and about to kick their butts.

Apart from the tribal infighting their biggest hamper was their reliance on France for support.

[Goofball]

Highlanders kick ass. Straight up. Their weapons are effective against armor, and it Shows. For a fairly cheap unit, they Tear into dismounted Knights, etc, like a hot knife through butter. (Just personal observation, haven't done any "Tests" to prove it.

Quick question: Are you using the Shield Fix?

It appears from your post that you aren't.

If you're not, you will be in for a bit of a surprise when you install the upcoming patch and try charging your Highlanders into a unit of DFK that are no longer handicapped by the Shield Bug.

[Fletch]

I agree with Goofball, highlanders straight up against DFKs is a no contest with the shield bug fixed. Of course, you shouldn't be using your highlanders straight up against the DFKs, you should be using your pikes to pin and your highlanders to flank, something they're almost as good as Highland Nobles for. At least in single player, battles as scots are so simple I got bored with playing as them: border horse to either kill or chase away archers, advance the pike line, flank with two handers, watch enemy chain rout.

[detroitmechworks]

No haven't used the shield fix yet.

Thanks for the tip. (And now I know not to get too comfortable with my old tactics...)

Also haven't tried the scots in multiplayer yet, but that's due to the "Invalid CD-key" bug that I just fixed today. (I love having good resources available. THANK YOU POSTERS!)

[SoxSexSax]

I still stand by my assertion that they are 2nd easiest faction. Troop roster means nothing compared to starting location...who needs elite troops to beat the AI? Nobody I know!

[llewellyn]

but they do have elite troops just they are not that good unless you are pro with pikes

[dismal]

They get FKs and DFKs, which are plenty elite enough.

[HoreTore]

The only things I can see missing from the roster, are horse archers, early spears, gunpowder and long range missiles. Other than that, they have everything.

- They have excellent fast cav in border horses, one of the few western units who are fast, and thus a tremendous advantage when chasing routers and skirmishing. They can actually catch hobilars.
- As for heavy cav, they have order knights. No need for anything else.
- They have wonderful pikes, of course
- Good early offensive infantry in the highlanders and nobles, not a lot of factions who get that
- good late swordsmen