The Dreaded I Word

[KafirChobee]

Intelligence regarded as correct by the other country's intelligence.


Very arguable, especially given Bush didn't plan out the war.


As Pindar has said numerous times, within the law.


Geneva conventions don't apply to those we're fighting (terrorists, not soldiers). 'Torture' is highly debatable, given some people's propensity to call everything harsher than nicely asking torture.


Unconstitutional? Bah. Even captured enemy POWs are not entitled to full trials by jury for crying out loud.


So, it's Bush's fault the mayor was incompetent, the governor a useless ditherer who delayed sending in the Nat'l Guard? The federal response was not really worse than the 1992 response to Andrews.

But I encourage you and all...like minded people...to demand, incessantly, an impeachment and nothing else. It'll be funny to watch you try.

Crazed Rabbit

You jest, right?
Bush didn't plan or approve the war plan? Er, he was president - wasn't he? I mean we could simply blame Rummy for ignoring the Pentagon's plan of 300,000 - 500,000 troops needed to secure Iraq and ensure total victory, but Rummy worked for Bush. The buck stopped with Bush, not Rummy.

The intelligence you refer to as being accepted by "other nations intelligence", what nations are you refering to? The Brit falsified documents, that no one but Blair accepted as having any creedance? And that his second resigned over?

Invasion of privacy, illegal wiretapping, and all other similar activities supported by the Bushys were and are illegal. There is not, nor ever was any justification for them, except to gain info on their political enemys at home. You may accept that an imperial presidency is a good thing under Bush, but how will you feel when it is a Democrat employing the same illegal methods?

Torture is torture. If you truely believe that sleep deprivation, constantly blaring music, using cold and heat, stripping detainees naked, leaving them tied in fetal positions for days to live in their own waste, etc. are not forms of torture I suggest you try them. Go to the smallest closet in your home, strip first, shut the door and stand there for 20 hours. Then try to sleep for four hours with music blaring. Repeat for 30 - 100 days, or just do it 'til you begin to grasp the idea of just how cruel it is. Want to make it more real? Invite a few friends over to humiliate you, and maintain your confinement - tell them to ignore your asking them to stop - and tell them to force a confession about anything that comes to their wee minds. Then advise us as to whether it is torture or not.

The Bushys have ignored the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the common decency of basic human rights - things we once waived in the face of tyrants to encourage their compliance to our will - now we are the tyrants.

Blaming the failure of this administrations failures on others is what they do best. They are responsible for none of the inaction or actions they take; it is the fault of those disloyal, unpatriotic, peace loving others that are responsible for their failures - not them.

Since it is obvious that you have bought into their disinformation program, where all their actions have been legal and justified because of 9/11 - there is nothing anyone can demonstrate to you, or any form of reasoning that can be made that will change your mind. That, you will have to accomplish on your own by using the power of reason rather than blind acceptance of the disinformation being fed to the the "true believers".

Personally I blame the pardoning of Nixon on what is happening today. Had the full legal procedures continued against Nixon, the chance for another imperial presidency may have been crushed. Also, had impeachment procedures been brought against Reagan for Iran-Contra, the balance of powers would have been reconfirmed - regardless of whether Reagan was actually involved or not. Why? Because, the excuse "I didn't know" ought never to be allowed by the "decider" of our nation.

[Kralizec]

Don't say sleep deprivation isn't torture if you never were awake for 40 consecutive hours.