Cosa Nuova II: The Cult of the Cosa Nuova [Concluded]

[Stig]

Remember that the mafia might have recieved enveloppes as well

Which imo means that Sigurd and Seamus are not confirmed for 100%

[Andres]

Remember that the mafia might have recieved enveloppes as well

Which imo means that Sigurd and Seamus are not confirmed for 100%

Sigurd got an enveloppe, Seamus had his role from the beginning of the game, at worst he is converted, but then again, thus far we only had one person converted. Pevergreen (100 % innocent) said TB got converted... Seamus should be 100% innocent.

[Andres]

Wait a minute. Roadkill didn't vote for two rounds, if he doesn't vote this round, he'll get WoG'ed (3 rounds in a row not voting).

He would have voted by now to save his skin (this lynching round started more then 24 hours ago). DoH on the other hand did vote on day 2...

Unvote : Roadkill
Vote : greaterkhaan

Tally

Roadkill 3 (HughTower, GK, Stig)
Greaterkhaan : 2 (Seamus, ATC)


Come on town, wake up!

Somebody unvote Roadkill and vote GK!

Probably mafia: greaterkhaan , HughTower and DoH (or maybe, maybe, maybe Caius...)

[Stig]

Unvote, vote: Khaan

phew
The chance that Caius or Hugh is mafia is equal imo.
I doubt Sigurd told anyone who he did block (so it's 67%) and I only told Andres, WH and Sapi afaik, all innocent (67%)

[Andres]

Roadkill 2 (HughTower, GK)
Greaterkhaan : 3 (Seamus, ATC, Stig)

Need two more votes ! (worst case scenario: 3 CN's + 1 converted = 4 votes)

PM's sent to confirmed innocents, sapi in Cc.

Warmaster Horus, I know you are online and I just sent you a pm. What's keeping you?

Gah, he's offline right now, probably logged off while I was sending the message.

[Stig]

Roadkill 2 (HughTower, GK)

Roadkills innocent alright ... as this would mean that either Hugh or Khaan would vote for a mafia ... which can't happen, too much of a gamble.
Unless Caius is mafia afterall

[Kommodus]

I think I'll leave voting open until around midnight on Monday.

EDIT: My timezone is EST. So that's about 29 hours from now.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Somebody remind me what time zone this is in? I probably skimmed too quickly earlier.

So far, I'm not as adamantly convinced as ATC about GK, but we also haven't heard from Road or from GK, so I'll stand pat for now.

[pevergreen]

Vote: Khaan

Looks like we have the mafia.

[Crazed Rabbit]

*sees suspicions of greaterkhaan*

KHAAAN!

I'm waiting for you...

Crazed Rabbit

[seireikhaan]

Huh, well it seems this is going to be my farewell. Again, as I stated, I never recieved an envelope, so I suppose that lynching me is going to be the only way to prove my innocence. I guess that's just my fate for this game.

It looks like its a choice between me and Roadkill. I'd just like to say that first, I've tried to contribute for this entire game, whereas Roadkill has been on the sidelines the whole time. Secondly, Roadkill could easily have accounted for the fact that we often end up extending these voting sessions, thus throwing suspision off of him when he sticks his vote in late. But as I said, I've no way to prove my innocence, so its just going to come down to all of you.

One thing I do question though. People seem to believe Caius is mostly innocent, yet without proof. Why?

[Stig]

I watched him?


And Roadkill is mostlikely innocent as:
-Both Hugh and you voted for him
-He will be WoG'ed, and a mafia wouldn't let that happen

[Warmaster Horus]

Well, just to put this lynch firmly in place:
Vote:greaterkhaan

It's true, you did contribute more than Roadkill, but if he's going to be WoG'ed next turn...

[sapi]

So, no more suspicions at pevergreen. Pevergreen said he was sure TB got converted. Since pever is 100 % innocent, I am willing to take his word on it. TB voted Dutch; two possible scenarios: 1) Caius is mafia and TB saved him 2) worst scenario: Caius nor Dutch were/are mafia and TB acted as such to confuse us and to make us lynch Caius, another innocent.

I hate to bring up two more options
- Dutch was scum but since he was doomed TB voted to look good
- both were scum

[Andres]

I hate to bring up two more options
- Dutch was scum but since he was doomed TB voted to look good
- both were scum

Those are indeed two other options, but:

- Dutch was scum but since he was doomed TB voted to look good
* Dutch wasn't doomed, it was a tie. That close to the end, the CN wouldn't waste one of them. TB is converted and thus expandable. They would have used him to safe a mafiaosi.

- both were scum
* if both were scum, why let the converted CN expose himself? Let a townie decide and start prosecuting the one who broke the tie, try to get him lynched.

[Andres]

Huh, well it seems this is going to be my farewell. Again, as I stated, I never recieved an envelope, so I suppose that lynching me is going to be the only way to prove my innocence. I guess that's just my fate for this game.

Getting lynched does not prove your innocence. On the contrary.

I'd just like to say that first, I've tried to contribute for this entire game, whereas Roadkill has been on the sidelines the whole time. Secondly, Roadkill could easily have accounted for the fact that we often end up extending these voting sessions, thus throwing suspision off of him when he sticks his vote in late. But as I said, I've no way to prove my innocence, so its just going to come down to all of you.

Roadkill was on the sidelines in previous games, lurking and not contributing much. He was innocent in those games... Counting on an extended voting session would have been very dangerous, risking his life. As mafia, you don't take such risks. He could have easily voted Caius, TB or no lynch with a short but decent argumentation, thus avoiding WoG without risking alot. He didn't.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Ya'll should have remembered from last game how easy a lynch Roadkill is.

[pevergreen]

yeah. He always looks like mafia...thats the problem.

[HughTower]

Andres - welcome back.

Re: your suspicions of me.

I am alive, active & without a role or envelope, so I understand them completely. All I can say in my favour is that I was role-blocked by Sigurd over N4, while the CN attempted 2 kills. This, as Stig points out, makes me more likely to be innocent than not. However, it's hardly conclusive evidence, I agree, but it seems to be enough for you to exclude Caius from your suspect list - his behaviour this game is clearly different from his others.

Re: numbers of CN

It is wholly possible that there might only be 2 CN left - is there any reason we're assuming 3 (other than to be cautious)?

In my view then, our suspects are:

DoH
Roadkill
Khaan
Caius

Roadkill has been put in an impossible postion now btw. If he returns to vote, then he's back on the suspect list: if he doesn't he's WOG'd.

DoH & Caius have also gone quiet, & in doing so, seem have removed themselves from suspicion - why is this?

Khaan has been in the frame all game. Has anyone blocked/watched/investigated him? If not, why not? Hell, I was blocked & I've been off the danger radar for most of the game.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

We're assuming three due to our history of not lynching mafia in the first 5 rounds.

[HughTower]

We're assuming three due to our history of not lynching mafia in the first 5 rounds.

Which history? Where?

[Andres]

but it seems to be enough for you to exclude Caius from your suspect list - his behaviour this game is clearly different from his others.

As is yours. You're more aggressive normally, a style which got you lynched as a townie before. Now, you seem to be more cautious, avoiding to provoke or anger players... You are usually less concerned about that.

Roadkill has been put in an impossible postion now btw. If he returns to vote, then he's back on the suspect list: if he doesn't he's WOG'd.

I think he won't come back. And don't pm him to come back, playing the good townie who wants everyone to participate Let's see if he returns spontaneously.

DoH & Caius have also gone quiet, & in doing so, seem have removed themselves from suspicion - why is this?

Erh... DoH and Caius are on several people's suspect list. Greaterkhaan, DoH, you and Caius are prime suspects.

Roadkill didn't vote for 2 subsequent rounds. A mafioso would have saved his skin by now by voting.

Khaan has been in the frame all game. Has anyone blocked/watched/investigated him? If not, why not? Hell, I was blocked & I've been off the danger radar for most of the game.

Who knows what others know, who knows. You're a suspect, so don't be surprised nobody shares valuable information with you. Nothing personal.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Which history? Where?

Ichi's game, Mafia VI, mafia V, Mafia I, Mafia II, Mafia III...

Also, I don't really see xehh as mafia and I know I'm not, so your theory is a little off. Why do you keep pushing the 2 cn theory? It's better to err on the side of caution. You seem to want us to be careless here.

[HughTower]

You're more aggressive normally, a style which got you lynched as a townie before. Now, you seem to be more cautious, avoiding to provoke or anger players... You are usually less concerned about that.

You're right. I am not proud that I have angered people before - this is a game after all - & I've made an effort to be less prickly.

I have still challenged people throughout this game & will continue to do so.

I think he {Roadkill} won't come back. And don't pm him to come back, playing the good townie who wants everyone to participate Let's see if he returns spontaneously.

What a plan! We're in such a position of strength that we simply don't need every townie that we can get our hands on!

Welcome to Salem.

Who knows what others know, who knows. You're a suspect, so don't be surprised nobody shares valuable information with you. Nothing personal.

I'm not asking them to. Nor did I ask everyone to spill their roles out into the public domain as soon as they got them. Nor did I ask them to tell me that I've been role-blocked, or Seamus & Caius have been watched, or any of the other results.

My point is, Andres, that I know I'm a suspect, & I understand why. You, however, need to remain open-minded to every possibility at this point.

Ichi's game, Mafia VI, mafia V, Mafia I, Mafia II, Mafia III....

Those games you've listed have very few roles, which explains the importance of the end game. A lot of the other themed games show a different pattern (eg. CdiT, Graffiti, CN, Rise of the Mob). I postulate that this is because the no. of additional roles generate more chat & therefore more mistakes/succesful investigations/protections/vigilante kills were achieved.

This is obvious, so, Sasaki, why are you pointing us towards those games for comparison?

Also, I don't really see xehh as mafia and I know I'm not, so your theory is a little off.

Well, we don't know you're not. You were lynched for acting like Mafia & nothing has come to light to disprove or prove that. Xehh would most likely have been lynched as well for the same reasons.

Why do you keep pushing the 2 cn theory? It's better to err on the side of caution. You seem to want us to be careless here.

The very opposite - I want us to stop taking things for granted. There are a number of assumptions being made which are potentially dangerous & I am challenging them - no more, no less than that.

[Dutch_guy]

I hate to bring up two more options
- Dutch was scum but since he was doomed TB voted to look good
- both were scum

Those are indeed two other options, but:

- Dutch was scum but since he was doomed TB voted to look good
* Dutch wasn't doomed, it was a tie. That close to the end, the CN wouldn't waste one of them. TB is converted and thus expandable. They would have used him to safe a mafiaosi.

- both were scum
* if both were scum, why let the converted CN expose himself? Let a townie decide and start prosecuting the one who broke the tie, try to get him lynched.

I wasn't doomed, TB put the final vote for me. Meaning he wanted me dead, as otherwise it would have been a tie and the town could have seen the error of it's way. However, TB sealed my fate at a time when he didn't have to, which to me sounds like a convert. It all makes sense, as the one-night-kill was fairly early on, when the mafia tend to target the lurkers/newer people.

By the way, you two both owe me a beer when this game is over, and I turn out to be innocent.

[Andres]

What a plan! We're in such a position of strength that we simply don't need every townie that we can get our hands on!

Think about it. We lynch a suspect and another possible suspect gets WoG'ed... Besides, you voted Roadkill and now you are calling him a townie. You voted him, so you should be convinced he is mafia, so why are you upset about a mafia getting WoG'ed...?

The town is doing great, the CN got only 2 kills in the last two nights. At this pace, we can eliminate all suspects (i.e. not confirmed innocents) and win the game.

[sapi]

By the way, you two both owe me a beer when this game is over, and I turn out to be innocent.

I didn't actually vote for you - CF was the better lynch.

[Andres]

By the way, you two both owe me a beer when this game is over, and I turn out to be innocent.

The town appreciates your sacrifice If you turn out to be innocent, you will get a statue in Gisenyi

[seireikhaan]

The town appreciates your sacrifice If you turn out to be innocent, you will get a statue in Gisenyi

Will I get one too? Oh and just curious, since it seems pretty much sealed by this point, why does everyone want me lynched so bad?

[Andres]

Will I get one too? Oh and just curious, since it seems pretty much sealed by this point, why does everyone want me lynched so bad?

We assume the worst case scenario: all 3 original CN's are still alive.

Process of elimination leaves us with 5 possible suspects (TB converted, he is on the side of the CN, but we don't need to lynch the converted ones to win this game):

Destroyer of Hope
greaterkhaan
HughTower
Roadkill
Caius

Roadkill will get WoG'ed or at least didn't care about getting WoG'ed.

4 left:

Destroyer of Hope
greaterkhaan
HughTower
Caius

Caius got watched by Stig and was at home last night. HughTower got blocked by Sigurd the night before, but the CN managed to get two kills.

So Caius or HughTower are innocent. This means greaterkhaan and DoH must be guilty. You were in the running with Roadkill. To avoid lynching Roadkill and to make sure all 4 (3 original and 1 converted) votes of the CN wouldn't be able to lynch a townie, all townies still intrested in this game needed to vote you, to make sure a CN gets lynched.