faction names in EB

[Callahan9119]

i cant find the name used in this mod for carthage anywhere...can anybody point me to some data? i mean wasnt it carthago in latin or something?

awsome mod. i just wish for the sake of brevity it was carthage etc, feels like i'm looking at chinese half the time, after an hour i look like this lol i dont know who half the people are that engage me in diplomacy

[Arkatreides]

The identifier for Carthage is 'egypt' if that is waht you are refering to.

In game Carthage is refered to as 'Karthadastim'

[Callahan9119]

i am talking about how they named carthage in the game k/qarthadastim...i cant find that name used anywhere

[Teleklos Archelaou]

You would have loved the old name. You old-timers will remember it I'm sure. Sig banners still carry it in the filename.

[Foot]

It really is Qarthadastim or Safot Softim biQarthadast, those are the only names we have for that faction.

Foot

[Kralizec]

You would have loved the old name. You old-timers will remember it I'm sure. Sig banners still carry it in the filename.

Tsorim?

[Callahan9119]

yes, but i am asking where you got this name from, its not latin, greek or phoenician

[Foot]

Its semitic, I thought. Which would make it phoenician.

Foot

[Lucidus]

From Punic/Phoenician language.

Qart-Hadast,punic city founded in 227 b.c.(Asdrubal)

Old names:
Contestania or Contesta(1410 b.c,King Testa)
Karjedon,Molibdna,Nanantia(greek names;VIII century a.c.)
Mastia(VI century b.c.)
Qart-Hadast(Asdrubal,227a.c.);Karche Don-Near(greek name)
Carthago Nova or Nova Cartaginem(Scipio,209 b.c.)
Carthago Spartaria(later,roman name)
Cartaginem(Carthaginensis province)
Auriola or Aureriola(Suintila y Sisebuto)
Justina(Byzantine)
Alcherone(arab name)
Qartayannat al Halfa(arab;739a.c)
Carthagine,Cartagenia,Cartagina
Carthagena(Alfonso X, el Sabio)
Cartagena.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

We are certain on this one. Someone will have to go dig up the internal threads...

[Domitius Ulpianus]

If I remember correctly Qart-Hadast means "new city" in punic/phoenician.

[Empty]

yes, but i am asking where you got this name from, its not latin, greek or phoenician

It is. You see there is a difference, for example: let's take Russia. People call this country so in their everyday speach, but the state itself is called Russian Federation, America = The United States of America. The same is for Qart Hadasht. Safot Softim biQart hadasht means "Reign/management/administration of the suffets in Carthage" or smth. You won't be able to find it anywhere in the internet, but it is mentioned in specialized literature(Shifman, Krahmalkov, Moscati(sp?)).

[Nabaati]

If I remember correctly Qart-Hadast means "new city" in punic/phoenician.

It does in fact mean new city. I have no idea about the etymology of qart, but if I remember correctly (I should mention my knowledge on this subject comes from looking at a friend's comparative semitc book) it was common to the other semitic languages of its grouping (I forget the modern grouping). Every group seemed to have their own word for city. Hadast, on the other hand, is cognate with arabic hadiith. There's your semitic languages lesson for the day.

[Callahan9119]

hmmm i suppose, but i dont understand the liberty taken with the language, i just have never seen this name as in the game...i'm not trying to be a pretentious shit, i just have never seen this spelling...if its a simplification of phoenician new city i suppose i can understand

i was curious and for the sake of simplicity googled it, EB was the only query for 2 pages, i didnt look further

i just have never heard of anything but the latin and greek version of the "nations" name, so i was wondering

[alatar]

Probebly because the romans and greeks cultures won the war, and there names passed on.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

If I remember correctly Qart-Hadast means "new city" in punic/phoenician.

So it is a name-brother of Naples.

[Callahan9119]

Alatar, exactly the reason i am asking why it isnt qart hadast, which was phoenician

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Waiting on an answer to an associated question on our internal forum (some guys aren't online all the time after all), but I can tell you we were given this faction's names (I belive we have the name appear two different ways in two different places) by Dr. Charles Krahmalkov directly. He has been really quite helpful and friendly to us, quite surprising for academics.

Krahmalkov's CV (note his status as author/editor of the Punic dictionary and grammar)

[Sheep]

Alatar, exactly the reason i am asking why it isnt qart hadast, which was phoenician

Isn't it Kart-Hadast in the game? Are you talking about a difference of one letter?

(edit) Never mind, you are talking about the faction, not the city.

[vonhaupold]

From Punic/Phoenician language.

Qart-Hadast,punic city founded in 227 b.c.(Asdrubal)

Old names:
Contestania or Contesta(1410 b.c,King Testa)
Karjedon,Molibdna,Nanantia(greek names;VIII century a.c.)
Mastia(VI century b.c.)
Qart-Hadast(Asdrubal,227a.c.);Karche Don-Near(greek name)
Carthago Nova or Nova Cartaginem(Scipio,209 b.c.)
Carthago Spartaria(later,roman name)
Cartaginem(Carthaginensis province)
Auriola or Aureriola(Suintila y Sisebuto)
Justina(Byzantine)
Alcherone(arab name)
Qartayannat al Halfa(arab;739a.c)
Carthagine,Cartagenia,Cartagina
Carthagena(Alfonso X, el Sabio)
Cartagena.

I believe alot of these names refer to Cartagena in present day province of Murcia, Spain, not Carthage in North Africa. I guess the Phoenician name would be the same though since they did conquer it.

I wonder if Qart-Hadast was just what the Phoenicans named all their new cities. Kind of like Alexander the Great founding a bunch of Alexandria's.

[Lucidus]

I believe alot of these names refer to Cartagena

Yep.All of them.

I wonder if Qart-Hadast was just what the Phoenicans named all their new cities

Probably.
Carthage ( from the Phoenician Kart-hadasht meaning new town, Latin: Carthago)
And Cartagena got the same name (Asdrubal,227ac)

The name Carthage is derived by way of Greek and Latin dialects from the Phoenician (QRT HDST ) meaning "new city." More than one Phoenician settlement originally bore this name, although only one city has the distinction of being the Carthage of the ancient world.

[Nabaati]

Isn't it Kart-Hadast in the game?

I've always assumed that the k would get fixed at some point, but in case people don't know, it probably should be spelled with a q. The first consonant of qart is a voiceless uvular stop, which is traditionally transcribed with a q (or a k with a dot underneath, but that's an older tradition).

[Callahan9119]

it is spelled with a q in the factions list ingame

i just personally wish it was carthago, or something more "familiar" but thats just me

[Barbarossa82]

Well, they have a policy of naming cities and factions after the name used by their own people. Carthago was what the Romans called Carthage, not what the Carthaginians called Carthage.
If you're playing as the Romans and would rather have "Romanised" place names, you can always rename individual cities after conquering them, which would be quite realistic. To enable this, go into your preferences file and change "EDIT_SETTLEMENT_NAMES" from false to true. Alternatively you could just edit the text files to change as many city/province/faction names as you like. Just make sure you only change the names that appear on screen rather than the internal names!

[Foot]

Well, they have a policy of naming cities and factions after the name used by their own people. Carthago was what the Romans called Carthage, not what the Carthaginians called Carthage.
If you're playing as the Romans and would rather have "Romanised" place names, you can always rename individual cities after conquering them, which would be quite realistic. To enable this, go into your preferences file and change "EDIT_SETTLEMENT_NAMES" from false to true. Alternatively you could just edit the text files to change as many city/province/faction names as you like. Just make sure you only change the names that appear on screen rather than the internal names!

Do Not Do This. There is one piece of code that we use extensively that uses the external name of settlement (crazy CA, we don't know why) changing the settlement names will make a lot of our traits defunct.

Foot

[Barbarossa82]

Hmmm, I had no idea about that. If the code is using the external name, would renaming the settlement in-game also mess up the traits?

[Foot]

Hmmm, I had no idea about that. If the code is using the external name, would renaming the settlement in-game also mess up the traits?

Yes, that was my original point.

Foot

[Barbarossa82]

Sorry, that was poor phrasing on my part. I thought you might only have been referring to editing the text files. By "renaming the settlement in-game", I meant "renaming the settlement from within the game"; i.e. by clicking on its name on the info scroll and typing a new one. Since this doesn't seem to affect imperial_campaign_regions_and_settlement_names.txt and applies only to the campaign currently being played, I wondered if it might be not technically changing the external name at all.

[LordCurlyton]

Could you set it up such that when a faction/culture conquers a settlement, its external name is automatically changed to whatever that faction/culture would most likely have called it? Frex, If Rome conquered Qart-Hadast it would be renamed Carthago or the like but if Carthage took it back it would go back to Qart-Hadast. And if, for some reason, a greek culture later came in and took it over, it would be renamed to the greek equivalent. And you could tie each faction/culture's traits and such that are based on the external name to the culture-specific name of the settlement? Just a thought, and it would be interesting to see what the Sweboz would potentially have called Roma had they marched down her streets....

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Can't do it - scripts use the name of the settlements, and not just the internal name, but the visible one. So it would mess up scripts. Sorry.