Latest info on M2 add-on

[Anthony]

What's 'English' they didnt' exist yet.

The concept of 'England' does emerge during the viking period, but only post-viking invasions. I refer to 'England' solely as a region though in context of my post. Ignore this unless you're refering to K COSSACK.

Anthony, the Irish beat the Viking badly? how so? I thought if the English couldn't beat the vikings nor could the Irish.

Depends on which vikings. The Danes invaded Ireland before Norwegians and they made little progress. While their raids on monastaries were effective, when they actually engaged the Irish armies, they were devestated, and left to invade England (which, you should mind, was several kingdoms as well).

Even in that sense, the English were not some monolithic superpower. Until the high middle ages, well past the Norman conquest, England was a minor power, constantly dealing with internal issues (and even afterward still had to contend with them).

Further, it's a matter of military tactics. At the time, the inhabitants of England were various Anglo-Saxon kingdoms who fought little different than Norse or Danes of the era. Fighting them was nothing different or new for the Norse or Danes; they used very similar tactics. Compare to the regular use of cavalry in a Gaelic army (always drawn up on one flank, to flank the enemy).

Flanking the enemy infantry position, especially if it's a static or slow moving shieldwall, is simple, with cavalry.

I mean, come on. Do you know much of the history of the vikings in Ireland? They advanced in the east for a time, but then were driven back to the coastal forts they'd made. Permanent footholds inland were impossible for them to maintain.

Also, dark age Ireland is more advanced than you seem to realize. Never suffering the dark ages, the Irish had a more advanced military at the time than their neighbors did, in that they had readily equipped (and fairly well) regular soldiers, large weapon doles for levies, and orders of regularized proto-chivalry, with especially well-trained soldiers. It is that, aside from some advancements brought by the Norse (cheap production methods of mail and long-bladed swords, mainly), they were fairly stagnate in some ways (not all, the Irish were actively developing right up to the Norman invasion, but not necessarily new tactics; more refining the old). Even then, the Norman invasion of Ireland in the late 1100s was far from a conquest; Norman armies were often broken, and Norman captures rarely were maintained. Like the Norse, they only managed to maintain coastal holdings, as they could be easily reinforced. Inland holdings were, for centuries, trading hands between Gaelic and Norman lords (and the Normans weren't so different; they became so Gaelic in nature they were called 'more Irish than the Irish').

The 'English' in the period weren't that strong or imposing. Gaelic 'Scots' (Dal Riadans), essentially identical to the Irish, but for having smaller numbers, and the relatively backward Picts, had met with defeats by Anglo-Saxons, but also had some tremendous victories, and had efficiently contained them to a specific region of what is now Scotland. The English were hardly juggernauts, and their way of fighting at the time was steadily outmoded, particularly their lightness of cavalry, which became increasingly more important. Against the Danes, they had few real advantages to push, but the Irish had cavalry, at least, and numbers in far greater amount (the Fyrd was neither large nor well-trained nor well-equipped enough to amount to an effective resistance in northern England; the Irish ceithernn {warbands} were; they had javelins, spears, light cavalrymen, and light shock infantry, bolstered by regular soldiers and nobles, a far cry from Saxon armies composed of simple, early Fyrdmen, poorly equipped, bolstered only by their local gentry).

Ireland, also, when initially engaging the vikings, was coming out of a period of peace. Their armies were in far better shape than the kingdoms that made up England, at the time. The Irish set into eachother as a result as well (arguing over who was right to unite against the foreigners and such), but that was after the invasions that they began to fight eachother in major combat again. In addition, they drew the Norse into their fights, and turned many of the Norse against their forebears, and brought them into Irish armies, and those they couldn't could be successfully contained to coastal fortresses by either military superiority or flat-out numbers.