Samurai Warlords beta 8

[Puzz3D]

making BFN the counter to an uber Kensai...

Reducing the kensai's speed so that it's slower than the BN will help the BN be an anti-kensai unit. That will leave the BN as the fastest infantry unit. Cavalry is a good counter to BN.

Q - what effect does discipline REALLY have?

It increases unit cohesion. I don't know if it does anything more than that.

[R'as al Ghul]

Thanks for the offer, Bonfire. You may have missed this but there's a soundswapper tool included in the download. Also we've already asked CA to give permission to use the sounds. If they allow it I'll upload a sound installer that's already as good as finished.

UM R'as al Ghul i spent the last 4 hours editing the voices and sounds of the specific spot to have it totaly shogun total war sound with.

mongol music surprise during credits. if oyu want the file. i can give it to you to host it or put in your new beta. or have it seperate

[Bonfire]

i could host it my self but i think R'as al Ghul but utlmatly its up to you guys if oyu want it or not. the voice and music edits is roughly 150 MB rar

I geus i just mised the origonal. what voices and sound's are oyu gonna used ra's

[R'as al Ghul]

We want to use the original STW files.

[KafirChobee]

Downloaded it (took like 4 hours), tried to play it and it locked up because the program tries to go to the internet and my security system asks if it is ok - but, I can't get to it because of overlays in the program.

It starts as purely a Samurai game. So maybe I installed it wrong, but if not to MTW-VI? Then to what?
Guess, I will just delete it.

[Bonfire]

@KafirChobee

IT GOES LIKE THIS BRO..

MTW INSTALLED

then you install vikings.

then you patch it to. 2.01

then you install the mod.
--------------------------

@Ra's when i took a look at the sound files. yesterday i saw that all the factions are orthadox and that there voice is russian folder.

unless you put some arab or latin can you get the diffrent type of voice's..

the sound file i got. is already finish it sounds just like the voice the only diffreance is that the russian voice folder has the deep general speak.

if you want we could pick the 3 diffrent type of voice and put one in latin one in arab and one in russian and have the voice type overwrite the orignal files it how i did it. but the file would be bigger if you did that..

me byt doing the music-voices for the mod the way it is now. came to 150 megs. if we included the 2 more voice settings we would need to include the 2 more music settings even though they would be the same as the current one i would have but thats still all in total 450 megs

[CBR]

Hey Kafir. If it starts up then you installed it correctly. You should be able to check your firewall and allow the new MTW/VI exe.


CBR

[Bonfire]

We want to use the original STW files.

when you say the orignal do oyu mean not just one type of voice. but all 5.

[Gaius Baltar]

the mercs cannot leave till you build a port

There IS a port. Other regular units come and go.


My Uesugi campiagn,

Taking on Takeada. When I autocalculate battles, I do well. When I go to the battlemap, most of my units route on contact (hard). Very frustrating.

[R'as al Ghul]

My Uesugi campiagn,

Taking on Takeada. When I autocalculate battles, I do well. When I go to the battlemap, most of my units route on contact (hard). Very frustrating.

Welcome Gaius,

tactics are razorsharp in this game. You've to pay close attention to the morale of your units. Also, in hard you give the AI an advantage. Maybe try normal difficulty first.

[Puzz3D]

There IS a port. Other regular units come and go.


My Uesugi campiagn,

Taking on Takeada. When I autocalculate battles, I do well. When I go to the battlemap, most of my units route on contact (hard). Very frustrating.

Check you general's vices and virtues. If he has the "coward" trait, his army gets -9 morale. There are also other traits that gives a morale penalty to the army. This morale bonus or penalty from the general doesn't depend on how many command stars a general has. It could be that we have to raise the basic morale of the units.

[Puzz3D]

Because of their high maintenance cost I've taken to disbanding hatamoto units that do not contain an heir. I got rid of 5 of them for a savings of 750 koku per year.

[barocca]

Because of their high maintenance cost ......

Is the upkeep cost too high?

[Noir]

Getting expensive prince units (effectively without its will) has always been a problem for the AI factions in my experience with MTW. Reducing it to a minimum and makingsuch units non-recruitable does seem to help.

[barocca]

The Hatamoto unit we designed and created for the mod works quite well,
the AI employs them effectively on the battlefield, and does not seem to bankrupt itself having too many.

They are recruitable because we want to be able to replenish the heirs unit after a battle.

If we reduce upkeep too much the AI may make too many.
B.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by Barocca
The Hatamoto unit we designed and created for the mod works quite well,
the AI employs them effectively on the battlefield, and does not seem to bankrupt itself having too many.

They are recruitable because we want to be able to replenish the heirs unit after a battle.

If we reduce upkeep too much the AI may make too many.
B.

The unit works quite well both in SP and MP, i completely agree, and i enjoy using them. They also do not account for bankrupting the AI in SWs, but they are a burden in certain situations.

Making them non-recruitable is a simple trick in order to rid of the issue of maintenance costs entirely. However it does indeed raise the issue of retraining them putting the whole thing into a vicious circle, design wise.

Another way to reduce the AI soft spot for building them as they are cheap in my experience, would be to drop its preferance value for the AI factions, but that needs much of playteting that is not worth it overall as the campaign works well and army compositions are the best i've experienced so far in TW.

Many thanks

Noir

[Puzz3D]

Is the upkeep cost too high?

At a cost of 1200, I doubt the AI buys hatamoto units. I certainly don't. The upkeep is 150 which seems high since upkeep for a full 60 man cav unit is 120. I'm not sure what purpose the high upkeep on hatamoto serves.

[barocca]

...so long ago we made them i dont recall the rational for making them so expensive,
i think it was to stop humans using them as game winners - IIRC they were once muchstronger than they are now.

drop it to 100? and see what happens?

[R'as al Ghul]

At a cost of 1200, I doubt the AI buys hatamoto units. I certainly don't. The upkeep is 150 which seems high since upkeep for a full 60 man cav unit is 120. I'm not sure what purpose the high upkeep on hatamoto serves.

In one of the previous versions the AI loved to build Hatamoto. Their upkeep was lower than for normal Cav while their combat abilities aren't that much lower, especially when valoured up.
It was my intention to limit the number of non-royal Hatamoto units. I may have gone too far with the upkeep. You could say it reflects their status as most important samurai a daimyo can have.
I think we need to decrease the upkeep and level it with other cav. I'd like to have more feedback, though.
Also, I've increased more than the hatamoto upkeep costs. I've changed all prices for all SP units. This is all open to discussion as far as I'm concerned.
We also need to think about the provinces' income in relation to upkeep cost.
If the middle factions like Amako etc. can't field proper armies because of low income, it should be adjusted.

BTW, the Kensai has considerably higher upkeep cost than in previous versions and yet the AI loves to build them as I hear. Or was it just the valour it gains that is a problem?

If anyone has any constructive feedback on army composition, upkeep etc. I'd love to hear it.

[Noir]

I treated this problem in my home mod of MedMod IV the following way and it seemed to work:

1. Decreased the maint. cost of bodyguards to a minimum (balancing however the extra money and so troops the AI will get as such a surplus can make him overaggressive to his demise)
2. Made the bodyguard unit recruitable in only 1 homeland per faction (for Takeda may be kai for example and for Oda Owari)
2. Increase their build time to 2 turns
3. Raise their training cost to something very high, i think the present value will do.
4. Decrease the Ai preference value to 75 for all AI personalities.

This seems to have worked very well. The reasoning behind it is to give to the player a limited chance to retrain his bodyguards (as the AI never can) without though being convenient to do so or overproduce them due to the low maintanance cost (hence the high training and 2 turns that puts a bump in the training flow). The AI of MTW seems to build them reasonably when at 75 preference. A lower value may also be tried if playtesting indicates that he does more than he should with 75.

Two other points i'd like to mention are:

1. The very productive Dewa and Mutsu provinces, that account for campaign winners when combined with the edge map effect. There is a clear strategy: take Echigo, then take Dewa & Mutsu and you are way overcomfortable with money/defensibility/territorial robustness to go for Shogun.
2. A rebelliousness of 2 for all provinces rather than 0 as it stands will account for more slowly progressing campaigns and diffculty to expand. Not that its easy as it stands, so please consider this carefully.

I should mention that point 1 has been brought up by my person before (apologies for that).

Many Thanks

Noir

[Puzz3D]

Does the upkeep cost affect what units the AI trains?

[Noir]

I have a feeling that the initial cost is more of a factor for that.

Upkeep costs do affect the total number of men/units the AI can field though relative to its income.

Noir

[Puzz3D]

Upkeep costs do affect the total number of men/units the AI can field though relative to its income.

What I'm concerned about is that the player may be able to gain too much of an advantage over the AI by disbanding hatamoto units and replacing them with more effective, lower maintenance units. With that in mind, maybe an upkeep of 90 would be more in line with their capability considering that they are not as effective as NC, YC or HC due to the small size of the unit. I thought the purchase cost of NC, YC and HC should be increased somewhat based on its effectiveness, but maybe that will cause the AI to train less cav.

[Puzz3D]

Two other points i'd like to mention are:

1. The very productive Dewa and Mutsu provinces, that account for campaign winners when combined with the edge map effect. There is a clear strategy: take Echigo, then take Dewa & Mutsu and you are way overcomfortable with money/defensibility/territorial robustness to go for Shogun.

Maybe we could get a more effective distribution of province income using a topological analysis. The basic province income could be related to the number of bordering provinces. The AI is more apt to invade rich provinces, and these would offer more avenues of attack. A redistribution of starting positions may then be needed to maintain initial faction balance. I would say rich provinces should not be left vacant because the resulting land grab will upset the initial faction balance.

2. A rebelliousness of 2 for all provinces rather than 0 as it stands will account for more slowly progressing campaigns and diffculty to expand. Not that its easy as it stands, so please consider this carefully.

At least vacant provinces should have a tendency to rebel.

[[GG]Lord Ashram]

Hey!

I really would like to try your mod, but for some reason it crashes when I install.

I download the installer and double click the exe.

It unpacks and then asks where I want it to install.

I give it a destination folder (actually not quite a clean MTW/VI install, is that the problem?)

After I click install, it freezes up.

Any advice? I am dying to play it!:)

[barocca]

the installer actually removes some files before it installs,
if it cannot find those files it will chuck a tantrum and crash
B.

[R'as al Ghul]

After I click install, it freezes up.

Any advice? I am dying to play it!:)

As barocca said, the installer looks for the folder battle/maps to delete the old MTW maps. If it can't find that folder it won't install. It's a kind of failsafe to prevent people from installing in the wrong directory.

R'as

[R'as al Ghul]

Maybe we could get a more effective distribution of province income using a topological analysis. The basic province income could be related to the number of bordering provinces. The AI is more apt to invade rich provinces, and these would offer more avenues of attack. A redistribution of starting positions may then be needed to maintain initial faction balance. I would say rich provinces should not be left vacant because the resulting land grab will upset the initial faction balance.

That's a good idea. I'll try to post a map. Makes it easier to discuss.

[Puzz3D]

That's a good idea. I'll try to post a map. Makes it easier to discuss.

Number of neighbors and estimated income of each province:

INCOME - "These numbers give as close as possible the correct incomes at normal difficulty and normal taxation. I do not understand the formula used to calculate/translate these numbers into the figures you will see as province income in game. I think there is a + or - attatched to terrain types as well as a numerical formula." barocca - november 2003


Income = 335 Neighbours = 3 "ID_LANDREG_01" Satsuma
Income = 325 Neighbours = 2 "ID_LANDREG_02" Osumi
Income = 335 Neighbours = 4 "ID_LANDREG_03" Higo
Income = 760 Neighbours = 2 "ID_LANDREG_04" Hizen
Income = 325 Neighbours = 4 "ID_LANDREG_05" Hyuga
Income = 594 Neighbours = 4 "ID_LANDREG_06" Chikugo
Income = 566 Neighbours = 4 "ID_LANDREG_07" Chikuzen
Income = 428 Neighbours = 3 "ID_LANDREG_08" Buzen
Income = 224 Neighbours = 5 "ID_LANDREG_09" Bungo
Income = 260 Neighbours = 3 "ID_LANDREG_10" Nagato
Income = 408 Neighbours = 3 "ID_LANDREG_11" Iyo
Income = 260 Neighbours = 3 "ID_LANDREG_12" Suo
Income = 455 Neighbours = 2 "ID_LANDREG_13" Tosa
Income = 284 Neighbours = 3 "ID_LANDREG_14" Aki
Income = 224 Neighbours = 5 "ID_LANDREG_15" Iwami
Income = 184 Neighbours = 5 "ID_LANDREG_16" Bingo
Income = 270 Neighbours = 3 "ID_LANDREG_17" Izumo
Income = 705 Neighbours = 4 "ID_LANDREG_18" Sanuki
Income = 335 Neighbours = 3 "ID_LANDREG_19" Awa
Income = 214 Neighbours = 4 "ID_LANDREG_20" Bitchu
Income = 195 Neighbours = 5 "ID_LANDREG_21" Hoki
Income = 353 Neighbours = 4 "ID_LANDREG_22" Bizen
Income = 233 Neighbours = 5 "ID_LANDREG_23" Mimasaka
Income = 112 Neighbours = 2 "ID_LANDREG_24" Awaji
Income = 408 Neighbours = 7 "ID_LANDREG_25" Harima
Income = 233 Neighbours = 4 "ID_LANDREG_26" Inaba
Income = 500 Neighbours = 3 "ID_LANDREG_27" Kii
Income = 177 Neighbours = 4 "ID_LANDREG_28" Tajima
Income = 408 Neighbours = 5 "ID_LANDREG_29" Kawachi
Income = 408 Neighbours = 5 "ID_LANDREG_30" Tamba
Income = 381 Neighbours = 5 "ID_LANDREG_31" Yamato
Income = 280 Neighbours = 6 "ID_LANDREG_32" Yamashiro
Income = 224 Neighbours = 4 "ID_LANDREG_33" Iga
Income = 816 Neighbours = 5 "ID_LANDREG_34" Ise
Income = 195 Neighbours = 6 "ID_LANDREG_35" Wakasa
Income = 436 Neighbours = 6 "ID_LANDREG_36" Omi
Income =1202 Neighbours = 4 "ID_LANDREG_37" Owari
Income = 482 Neighbours = 7 "ID_LANDREG_38" Mino
Income = 521 Neighbours = 4 "ID_LANDREG_39" Echizen
Income = 372 Neighbours = 4 "ID_LANDREG_40" Kaga
Income = 482 Neighbours = 4 "ID_LANDREG_41" Mikawa
Income = 224 Neighbours = 5 "ID_LANDREG_42" Hida
Income = 298 Neighbours = 3 "ID_LANDREG_43" Totomi
Income = 187 Neighbours = 2 "ID_LANDREG_44" Noto
Income = 630 Neighbours =10 "ID_LANDREG_45" Shinano
Income = 408 Neighbours = 5 "ID_LANDREG_46" Etchu
Income = 179 Neighbours = 4 "ID_LANDREG_47" Suruga
Income = 138 Neighbours = 3 "ID_LANDREG_48" Izu
Income = 358 Neighbours = 5 "ID_LANDREG_49" Kai
Income = 836 Neighbours = 3 "ID_LANDREG_50" Sagami
Income =1185 Neighbours = 6 "ID_LANDREG_51" Musashi
Income = 760 Neighbours = 5 "ID_LANDREG_52" Kozuke
Income = 353 Neighbours = 1 "ID_LANDREG_53" Kazusa
Income = 537 Neighbours = 4 "ID_LANDREG_54" Shimosa
Income = 723 Neighbours = 5 "ID_LANDREG_55" Etchigo
Income = 390 Neighbours = 5 "ID_LANDREG_56" Shimotsuke
Income = 287 Neighbours = 0 "ID_LANDREG_57" Sado
Income =1149 Neighbours = 3 "ID_LANDREG_58" Hitachi
Income =1110 Neighbours = 5 "ID_LANDREG_59" Mutsu
Income = 741 Neighbours = 2 "ID_LANDREG_60" Dewa

[R'as al Ghul]