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Thread: Samurai Warlords beta 8

  1. #91
    warning- plot loss in progress Senior Member barocca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8

    Kaga - yes, something unusual happens with the Honganji, the AI clans sem to be reluctant to take them out,
    usually they die off due to rebellions when they get a lousy leader.

    Comparing Shinano to Hitachi is like comparing apples to cheese.
    Hitachi is one of the four "super-charged" provinces, the others being Owari, Musashi and Mutsu.
    All of which have (almost)double the starting income of Shinano.
    (Shinano starts at 340, but in campaign it has already built three levels of farming upgrades giving it 540 income)
    (Hida has built All farming upgrades)

    Happiness boosts from governor and king also boost produciton,
    you can also get "+10/20 %" trade and farming boosts too. (and you can get these from the King AND the governor at the same time)

    HOWEVER the difference between the highest income province (Owari) and the lowest (Awaji) is over 1,000 koku base rate.
    While that is less than what was in Shogun i would agree a little adjustment is in order.


    Puzz, you're the statistician,
    I would suggest finding a true average
    and a true variation from the average (the average of the sums of the differences)
    and then find a way to halve the variation average.

    to be fair every province would have to change with rich provinces coming down and poor provinces going up,
    but not to an even playing field, just to a level where we dont have such a huge difference.

    That way we have some rich provinces and some poor provinces but the difference betwen them will not be so excessive (1090 koku difference is excessive)


    WHAT we can think about is give the four Super rich provinces a longer tree, by adding a "Paddy Fields" resource i can give them extra steps on the farming upgrades.
    (and is Paddy Fields a good enough name??? - anyone think of anything different/better??)
    ALSO
    provinces like Kaga, Echizen, Etchu, Ise, Kawachi, Harima, Hyuga and Chikugo would have had the opportunity to become a richer than they were historically. I would suggest giving them the "new" resource, which wont really be a resource, just an indestructable and unbuildable building (can be done)
    - I THINK IT can also be made so the Mongols could raid and wreck...totally crippling the japanese economy...
    Last edited by barocca; 04-30-2007 at 23:30.
    The winds that blows -
    ask them, which leaf on the tree
    will be next to go.

  2. #92

    Default Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8

    Quote Originally Posted by barocca
    I would suggest finding a true average and a true variation from the average (the average of the sums of the differences) and then find a way to halve the variation average.

    to be fair every province would have to change with rich provinces coming down and poor provinces going up, but not to an even playing field, just to a level where we dont have such a huge difference.

    That way we have some rich provinces and some poor provinces but the difference betwen them will not be so excessive (1090 koku difference is excessive)
    Cutting the difference in half will help. I don't know if it will make a central province strategy viable. I'm not sure what difference you are talking about. It seems to me that the fully upgraded difference is what's important over the long haul.

    In any case, to cut the difference of the province incomes in the startpos file in half:

    total income = 26402
    average income = 26402/60 = 440

    For a province above the average:

    new income = average income + (old income - average income)/2

    For a province below the average:

    new income = average income - (average income - old income)/2

    _________Designed to match Original STW gameplay.


    Beta 8 + Beta 8.1 patch + New Maps + Sound add-on + Castles 2

  3. #93
    warning- plot loss in progress Senior Member barocca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8

    the problem with full upgrades is there is no limit, we have trade goods and govenor and king boosts,
    one of my govenors has 3 virtues all of which boost ag income and 2 also boost trade (and happy)

    overall the income wont change, we are just redistributing it...a little.

    Hitachi drops from 1149 to 795
    Owari drops from 1202 to 821

    Awaji climbs from 112 to 276

    I am playing a takeda campaign and i took Musashi first and used that income to get me some mercs and took out imagawa, then hojo, then satake and finally mogami. (everyone other clan was wiped out before i could get to them)
    I now have everything east of Hida and more koku than i can spend.
    (Hitachi brings in well over 3k a turn)
    Time for a little wealth redistribution.
    The winds that blows -
    ask them, which leaf on the tree
    will be next to go.

  4. #94
    warning- plot loss in progress Senior Member barocca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8

    If this does not fix things then i will try adding extra legs to the farming upgrade tree.
    Last edited by barocca; 05-01-2007 at 13:55.
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    will be next to go.

  5. #95
    warning- plot loss in progress Senior Member barocca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8

    here are the new province incomes,

    find the Region Attributes section in the campaign startpos file (smap_8)
    and replace that section with this one

    may or may not be compatible with old saves

    FEEDBACK PELASE
    cheers
    B.

    Code:
    //========================================
    //Region Attributes
    //The special characteristics for a region
    //========================================
    //NOTES:
    //  region id = code reference for this region
    //  name = name of region ( pointer to string in "Names.txt" )
    //  pop = population ( used for disaster calculations )
    //  culture = culture of this region ( taken into account for rebellions, faith, happiness, etc )
    //  terrain = Battlemap terrain attribute ( can be LUSH or TEMPERATE)
    //  architechture = battlemap building styles ( can be AT_DARK_AGE_EUROPEAN, AT_SOUTHERN_EUROPEAN, AT_EASTERN_EUROPEAN or AT_ISLAMIC )
    //  mapgroup = which group of maps this region looks up when a castle map is called for. values are from 0 -> ?. -1 specifies a random group.
    //  income = the income the owner of this region gets every year from un-augmented harvests.
    //  castle_name = name of the castle in this region ( pointer to string in "Names.txt" )
    //  region attributes = the type of map a battle would be fought on should it occur in this region:
    //						location - can be INLAND or COAST
    //						vista - can be FLAT, PLAINS, HILLY, or MOUNTAIN
    
    // INCOME - these numbers give as close as possible the correct incomes at normal difficulty and normal taxation,
    // i do not understand the formula used to calculate/translate these numbers into the figures you will see
    // as province income in game. i think there is a + or - attatched to terrain types as well as a numerical formula
    // barocca - november 2003 - www.totalwar.org
    //
    //			 REGION		NAME		POP.	CULTURE		TERRAIN	ARCHITECHTURE	MAPGROUP   	INCOME CASTLE-NAME	REGION ATTRIBUTES		VICTORY CONDITION
    
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_01  "Satsuma"	0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	388	"Kagoshima"		COAST	HILLY		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_02  "Osumi"		0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	383	"Kanoya"		COAST	MOUNTAIN	NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_03  "Higo"		0	CATHOLIC_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	388	"Udo"			COAST	MOUNTAIN 	NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_04  "Hizen"		0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	600	"Nagasaki"		COAST	FLAT 		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_05  "Hyuga"		0	CATHOLIC_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	383	"Iga-Ueno"		COAST	MOUNTAIN 	NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_06  "Chikugo"	0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	517	"Yanagawa"		COAST 	FLAT 		RIVER		TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_07  "Chikuzen"	0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	503	"Fukuoka"		COAST	FLAT 		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_08  "Buzen"		0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	434	"Moji"			COAST	FLAT 		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_09  "Bungo"		0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	332	"Usuki"			COAST	HILLY		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_10  "Nagato"	2	CATHOLIC_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	350	"Hagi"			COAST	MOUNTAIN	NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_11  "Iyo"		4	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	424	"Itashima"		COAST	HILLY		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_12  "Suo"		0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	350	"Iwakuni"		COAST	MOUNTAIN	NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_13  "Tosa"		0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	443	"Kochi"			COAST	MOUNTAIN	NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_14  "Aki"		0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	362	"Hiroshima"		COAST 	MOUNTAIN	NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_15  "Iwami"		0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	332	"Gotsu"			COAST	MOUNTAIN	NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_16  "Bingo"		0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE  	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN   	-1	312	"Takiyama"		COAST 	HILLY		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_17  "Izumo"		0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	355	"Matsue"		COAST	MOUNTAIN	NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_18  "Sanuki"	1	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	572	"Takamatsu"		COAST	FLAT		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_19  "Awa"		0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	388	"Tokushima"		COAST	HILLY		RIVER		TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_20  "Bitchu" 	0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	327	"Takamatsu"		COAST 	FLAT		RIVER		TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_21  "Hoki"		0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	318	"Kurayoshi"		COAST 	HILLY		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_22  "Bizen"		0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	397	"Okayama"		COAST	FLAT		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_23  "Mimasaka"	0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	336	"Tsuyama"		INLAND	MOUNTAIN	NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_24  "Awaji"		0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	276	"Sumoto"    		COAST 	FLAT		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_25  "Harima"	1	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	424	"Himeji"		COAST	FLAT		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_26  "Inaba"		0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	336	"Tottori"		COAST	HILLY		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_27  "Kii"		0	PAGAN_CULTURE		LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	470	"Ota"			INLAND 	HILLY		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_28  "Tajima"	0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	309	"Toyooka"		COAST 	HILLY		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_29  "Kawachi"	1	CATHOLIC_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	424	"Osaka"			COAST	FLAT		RIVER		TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_30  "Tamba"		0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	424	"Yagami"		INLAND	HILLY		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_31  "Yamato"	0	CATHOLIC_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	470	"Nara"			INLAND	MOUNTAIN	NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_32  "Yamashiro"	0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	360	"Kyoto"			INLAND	FLAT		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_33  "Iga"		0	CATHOLIC_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	332	"Iga-Ueno"		INLAND	MOUNTAIN	NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_34  "Ise"		0	CATHOLIC_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	628	"Nagashima"		COAST	FLAT		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_35  "Wakasa"	0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	318	"Maruoka"		COAST	FLAT		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_36  "Omi"		0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	438	"Hikone"		INLAND	FLAT		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_37  "Owari"		1	CATHOLIC_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	821	"Inuyama"		COAST	PLAINS		RIVER		TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_38  "Mino"		3	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	461	"Inabayama"		INLAND	HILLY		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_39  "Echizen"	0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	480	"Ichijo Ga Dani"	COAST	HILLY		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_40  "Kaga"		3	PAGAN_CULTURE		LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	406	"Kanazawa"		COAST	HILLY		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_41  "Mikawa"	0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	461	"Okazaki"		COAST	PLAINS		RIVER		TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_42  "Hida"		0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE 	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	332	"Takayama"		INLAND	MOUNTAIN	NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_43  "Totomi"	0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE 	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN 	-1	369	"Hamamatsu"		COAST 	PLAINS	 	NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_44  "Noto"		0	PAGAN_CULTURE		LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	314	"Nanao"			COAST	FLAT		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_45  "Shinano"	0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	535	"Fukashi"		INLAND	MOUNTAIN	NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_46  "Etchu"		0	CATHOLIC_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	424	"Matsukura"		COAST	FLAT		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_47  "Suruga"	0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	310	"Fujigawa"		COAST	PLAINS		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_48  "Izu"		0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	289	"Shimoda"		COAST	PLAINS		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_49  "Kai"		0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	399	"Kofu"			INLAND	HILLY		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_50  "Sagami"	0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	638	"Odawara"		COAST	PLAINS		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_51  "Musashi"	0	CATHOLIC_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	812	"Edo"			COAST	PLAINS		RIVER		TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_52  "Kozuke"	0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	600	"Minowa"		INLAND	HILLY		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_53  "Kazusa"	0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	397	"Mifunedai"		COAST	PLAINS		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_54  "Shimosa"	0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	488	"Konodai"		COAST	PLAINS		RIVER		TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_55  "Echigo"	0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	581	"Otate"			COAST	FLAT		RIVER		TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_56  "Shimotsuke"	0	CATHOLIC_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	415	"Aizu"			INLAND	HILLY		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_57  "Sado"		0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	364	"Ogi"			COAST	FLAT		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_58  "Hitachi"	0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	795	"Hitachi"		COAST	PLAINS		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_59  "Mutsu"		0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	775	"Sendai"		COAST	PLAINS		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    SetAttributes::	 ID_LANDREG_60  "Dewa"		0	ORTHODOX_CULTURE	LUSH	AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN	-1	590	"Yamagata"		COAST	PLAINS		NO_RIVER	TRUE
    cheers
    B.
    Last edited by barocca; 05-01-2007 at 13:52.
    The winds that blows -
    ask them, which leaf on the tree
    will be next to go.

  6. #96

    Default Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8

    I'll play some this weekend (no time in weekdays) and report Monday.

    PS May i also note that provinces that have their backs to the sea, have a large income and a river are playbalance killers as just by holding on to them and developing them i've won more campaigns that i can remember in STW and quite a few in SWs. From these two are in the northern part (Etchigo and Musashi) one in the centre (Owari) and one in the south (Chikugo).

    It might be possible to further get around this (together with re-balancing) that a river map may be blend together with normal maps so when these are invaded they sometimes give a river battle and sometimes dont.

    Many Thanks

    Noir

  7. #97
    warning- plot loss in progress Senior Member barocca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8

    you mean in the rivermap groups put say 1 in 4 maps that is NOT a river map...
    to simulate a successfull outflanking manouver by the attacker?
    The winds that blows -
    ask them, which leaf on the tree
    will be next to go.

  8. #98
    warning- plot loss in progress Senior Member barocca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8

    have let three campaigns autorun,
    1 shimazu victory, (satomi looked like they'd take it, but fell apart in a rebellion)
    2 mogami victory, (slow and steady wins the race, 1600's before it ended)
    3 takeda victory, (surprising, expanded got hammered back to 1 province and then went to town on everybody very rapidly)
    night
    B.
    The winds that blows -
    ask them, which leaf on the tree
    will be next to go.

  9. #99

    Default Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8

    Quote Originally Posted by barocca
    you mean in the rivermap groups put say 1 in 4 maps that is NOT a river map... to simulate a successfull outflanking manouver by the attacker?
    That happens with Musashi already. Maybe I accidentally put a non-river map in that group, but it might also be that one particular border crossing is a non-river. The castle would be located on one side of the river, and that's the side that would be defended so that you can retreat to the castle. Perhaps make the border crossings on the castle's side of the river non-river maps, but the random idea is good as well.

    I'll be able to try these new province incomes tonight. I'll play Takeda.

    I also did some auto-run campaigns last night, and the clan that got both Hitachi and Mutsu would take over the northern half of the map. However, the AI is not effective at preventing rebellions even with the -loyalty:180 argument. This prevented any AI clan from actually winning my auto-run campaigns, and sometimes a different clan would take over the northern end if it regenerated with a large force. It also seems that the campaign ends in or about 1868 with a "time loss".

    In my present Takeda campaign, the alliance with Otomo worked to my advantage. Uesugi attacked me in Shinano with 2500 vs my 2000 and won. I killed 1500 but lost 1200 men. I retreated to the castle, but it was going to fall in 1 year. I sallied and lost which reduced the size of my force in the castle to 78 men, but it was still going to fall the next year. On that turn, Otomo invaded Shinano with a large force and Uesugi abandoned the siege. Otomo then withdrew from the province and returned it to me. He then withdrew 5000 of its 6000 men on the front I believe to fight Oda who had regenerated. Satomi, who had the single province of Shimotsuke, then took Mutsu. That allowed me to get Hitachi and Echigo, and I then quickly eliminated Satomi. Now I have northern Japan and may be able to give Otomo a fight. It's 1717.

    _________Designed to match Original STW gameplay.


    Beta 8 + Beta 8.1 patch + New Maps + Sound add-on + Castles 2

  10. #100

    Default Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8

    Originally posted by Barocca
    you mean in the rivermap groups put say 1 in 4 maps that is NOT a river map...
    to simulate a successfull outflanking manouver by the attacker?
    Yes, or even better IMO to put 2 out of 4 maps that are not a river.

    Many Thanks

    Noir

  11. #101

    Default Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Noir
    Yes, or even better IMO to put 2 out of 4 maps that are not a river.
    We don't know if the map selection from the groups is really random.

    _________Designed to match Original STW gameplay.


    Beta 8 + Beta 8.1 patch + New Maps + Sound add-on + Castles 2

  12. #102

    Default Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8

    how abotu you make 4 non river maps for each river province but the assualt and the defence of any castle that is on a river province include the river scene.

    so that way you need to get throught he river fight before the castle fight. so you or the comptuer need more men. this also allows you to enjoy the well laid out defnces of oyur own castle or take the time to look around your current assualt map when deploying troops where it is best to place sombody .
    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

  13. #103

    Default Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8

    i geus what i was trying to say was. have all the maps be without a river.

    redo the castle maps. on the provices with rivers.

    have a river in the assualt maps. but have them only for provinces with rivers in them

    so during the assult on a province with a river. you have to walk over a bridge before assulting the caslte (all on the same battle map)
    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

  14. #104

    Default Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonfire
    so during the assult on a province with a river. you have to walk over a bridge before assulting the caslte (all on the same battle map)
    Can't do it because you can deploy anywhere around the castle. Only the AI gets stuck deploying at the default spot at the bottom of the map in a castle assault. The castles will be quite formidable on their own.

    _________Designed to match Original STW gameplay.


    Beta 8 + Beta 8.1 patch + New Maps + Sound add-on + Castles 2

  15. #105

    Default Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8

    Originally posted by Puzz3D
    We don't know if the map selection from the groups is really random.
    It appears to be, at least when i play MTW campaigns. The river map selection seldom gives the same river map.

    Even if that means that they are using a rota of some sort it helps with having a not always river crossing.

    Many Thanks

    Noir
    Last edited by Noir; 05-01-2007 at 21:13.

  16. #106
    warning- plot loss in progress Senior Member barocca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8

    i dont think the map choice is truly random,
    i think the game keeps track and uses each map sequentially until it runs out and then starts over BUT i also think it does this for AI battles, meaning all factions are working off the same "roster" as it were.

    Naturally more maps in each group is better

    anyway
    what i would like is some way to differentiate plains and flat terrains,
    i was thinking , seeing we are using small maps for hilly, mountian and flat what about using the largest maps for plains?
    Plains battles should be cavalry manouver, not small scale infantry plodding.
    If you dont have the cavalry you need to take the map then either build some or hire some.

    My mind is drawing a blank, we have three map sizes right?

    For the "to" and "from" plains maps (PlainsToHilly, MountainToPlains etc) we use the medium sized maps?


    This would allow you to redesinate the current plains maps into Flats, Hilly or FlatToHilly.
    But the Current correct Province maps you could either upscale them or leave the very best of them as plains, like a sort of bonus map,
    that way Most plains battles would be large maps,
    but every now and then you get to fight on a small map
    - (similar to Noirs excellent idea about a river map Without a river, to represent successful pre battle flanking manouver)


    Some River Provinces borders have rivers, some do not??!
    There really should not be any instances of that in the startpos file,
    my thinking at the time was what is the point of holding a river province if you cannot use the river for defence?
    HOWEVER i am very much liking the idea of random normal maps in the river map groups


    Autorun
    I declare a game won when one clan holds more than 80% of the provinces, left to run by itself I have never seen Total Victory either,
    for that matter I have never got to Total Victory myself - the rebellion factor inbuilt into Medieval is too strong on anything over than easy.

    cheers
    B.
    The winds that blows -
    ask them, which leaf on the tree
    will be next to go.

  17. #107

    Default Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8

    The AI doesn't play as well on large maps because it doesn't know how to manage fatigue. Fatigue rates are optimized for the small maps. The AI's reinforcements also get badly strung out on large maps, and the battles take longer to play. The medium size maps would be a better choice since these problems wouldn't be as apparent.
    Last edited by Puzz3D; 05-02-2007 at 04:47.

    _________Designed to match Original STW gameplay.


    Beta 8 + Beta 8.1 patch + New Maps + Sound add-on + Castles 2

  18. #108
    warning- plot loss in progress Senior Member barocca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8

    The winds that blows -
    ask them, which leaf on the tree
    will be next to go.

  19. #109

    Default Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8

    I got the generic map for a battle in Musashi. I attacked from Shinano to relieve a siege, and also brought in forces from Kai. I was also joined by units from the castle in Musashi. The army's commander was in the force coming from the castle. This was the second battle on that turn, and was a winter battle. I had successfully defended Shinano in the first battle.
    Last edited by Puzz3D; 05-02-2007 at 15:56.

    _________Designed to match Original STW gameplay.


    Beta 8 + Beta 8.1 patch + New Maps + Sound add-on + Castles 2

  20. #110
    warning- plot loss in progress Senior Member barocca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8

    the game does not select steppe or desert maps for campaign,
    can those maps be reassigned to other groups?
    (and any recommendations for additional terrain sets to use? as per the list in this thread)
    The winds that blows -
    ask them, which leaf on the tree
    will be next to go.

  21. #111
    warning- plot loss in progress Senior Member barocca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Puzz3D
    I got the generic map for a battle in Musashi. I attacked from Shinano to relieve a siege, and also brought in forces from Kai. I was also joined by units from the castle in Musashi. The army's commander was in the force coming from the castle. This was the second battle on that turn, and was a winter battle. I had successfully defended Shinano in the first battle.
    an error of some sort
    All the required map types exist in the set you have made,
    addendum - (i did not test if all the maps actually work)
    we would need to see similar occurences in other provinces to be able to determine the cause
    The winds that blows -
    ask them, which leaf on the tree
    will be next to go.

  22. #112

    Default Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8

    Quote Originally Posted by barocca
    we would need to see similar occurences in other provinces to be able to determine the cause
    I did more tests, and it happens when the general comes from the castle. The game must use the general in addition to some other parameter to determine which map set to use when no border is crossed. I didn't get the generic map on a sally in Shinano, but I did in Musashi. The game may be looking for a map in one of the map sets that we didn't use in beta 8.
    Last edited by Puzz3D; 05-03-2007 at 12:22.

    _________Designed to match Original STW gameplay.


    Beta 8 + Beta 8.1 patch + New Maps + Sound add-on + Castles 2

  23. #113

    Default Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8

    well couple days ago i started an expert campaign with the newly adjusted smap_8 thanks to brocca.

    i was the askitaga faction right next to oda in the capital. i was doing fine until i invaded the small island west of the yoshi sanada came back. but he brought with him the force of 4,000 men and since i was the second province he was under... he quickly elimnated the faction that had 1 of his provice since it was only 2. but for me. i had to empty my land give up the provinces that i by right took through conquest. and for nothing i could do nothing agasint the onslaught of 4,056 samuari.

    last i checked in shogun total war. when a faction is elimanated. they don't come back.. because of the way of the warrior..

    its either that. or my memory of the game a lil foggy but i could have sworn factions don't make a comback..


    is there anyway to get rid of this.


    anytime you play a new game and your at the beggin and you expanind slowly trying not to strain your army. when pow a force comes and you cannot defend agasint it i was pist what happen to me.

    it was the first time in a long time playing a faciton on expert serounded by other factions. kinda like the danes on expert.. or aragonese on expert you know what im saying..
    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

  24. #114

    Default Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8

    im wondering why in the mod oyu start off with 20,000 on easy and 17k on expert.

    you realise because of this oda always bribes the monk province southwest of owari.

    maybe we could alter the monks in thoes province so you can't bribe them and force them to be faught off or the use of a ninja.

    cause oda imbalances the game every time buy bribing the monks southwest of owari.

    he has done it. 3/4 times i tried. the 1/4th was the other faction next to it.

    could you guys also lower the rate of the upkeep and cost. so there is no need of 20k-17khaving the support coat being 90 with ashgru and 100+ beside bninja and kenasi.

    it make's it hard to save that 17k on expert. then after the money is gone ther is no way to succesfuly raise money because of the fact that most of the money goes away with the fact of support cost of the units.

    because of the high ammont of money you start off with the province of owari comes under the control of one of the faction right next to it thus. a level 3 monk temple complex is under the control of a faction that can produce valor 2-3 monks. thus the imbalance of the game. and outrageous morale of the monks.
    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

  25. #115

    Default Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonfire
    well couple days ago i started an expert campaign with the newly adjusted smap_8 thanks to brocca.

    i was the askitaga faction right next to oda in the capital. i was doing fine until i invaded the small island west of the yoshi sanada came back. but he brought with him the force of 4,000 men and since i was the second province he was under... he quickly elimnated the faction that had 1 of his provice since it was only 2. but for me. i had to empty my land give up the provinces that i by right took through conquest. and for nothing i could do nothing agasint the onslaught of 4,056 samuari.
    Clans that do come back do so with a lot of power. They need that to survive because they have essentially no income, and can't replace their losses. That can work to your advantage if their power is directed at other AI clans and not you, but it will be directed at you if it was you that eliminated the clan and occupy the territory. As I recall, you can deter clans from reappearing by keeping loyalty high in their former provinces.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonfire
    last i checked in shogun total war. when a faction is eliminated. they don't come back.. because of the way of the warrior..

    its either that. or my memory of the game a lil foggy but i could have sworn factions don't make a comback..

    is there anyway to get rid of this.
    They came back even in original STW. I don't know if you can get rid of it, but raising the loyalty that the AI has to maintain might reduce it happening to AI clans. You can do that with the -loyalty:X argument in the game's shortcut. I've started using -loyalty:180.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bonfire
    anytime you play a new game and your at the beggin and you expanind slowly trying not to strain your army. when pow a force comes and you cannot defend agasint it i was pist what happen to me.
    The player's position is precarious. I'll give Ashikaga a try tonight.

    it was the first time in a long time playing a faciton on expert serounded by other factions. kinda like the danes on expert.. or aragonese on expert you know what im saying..[/QUOTE]
    Why don't you try normal difficulty? I don't think the campaign is easy even on normal difficulty especially playing the Ashikaga clan.
    Last edited by Puzz3D; 05-03-2007 at 21:14.

    _________Designed to match Original STW gameplay.


    Beta 8 + Beta 8.1 patch + New Maps + Sound add-on + Castles 2

  26. #116

    Default Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonfire
    im wondering why in the mod oyu start off with 20,000 on easy and 17k on expert.

    you realise because of this oda always bribes the monk province southwest of owari.

    maybe we could alter the monks in thoes province so you can't bribe them and force them to be faught off or the use of a ninja.

    cause oda imbalances the game every time buy bribing the monks southwest of owari.
    It's because the unit costs were doubled, but the bribery costs may not have been doubled so there may be an imbalance there. It might be necessary lower the unit and building costs, and then lower the starting money.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bonfire
    could you guys also lower the rate of the upkeep and cost. so there is no need of 20k-17k having the support coat being 90 with ashgru and 100+ beside bninja and kenasi.

    it make's it hard to save that 17k on expert. then after the money is gone ther is no way to succesfuly raise money because of the fact that most of the money goes away with the fact of support cost of the units.
    The AI is under the same economic limitation. I think the idea is to have limited money so that you have to make choices about what to train and what to build, and so that you can't whole armies of heavy cav and monks. I do think the hatamoto upkeep might be too high.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonfire
    because of the high ammont of money you start off with the province of owari comes under the control of one of the faction right next to it thus. a level 3 monk temple complex is under the control of a faction that can produce valor 2-3 monks. thus the imbalance of the game. and outrageous morale of the monks.
    Level 3 monk temple might be too high. A valor 2 monk is twice as powerful as a valor 0 monk which also makes it almost twice as powerful as a heavy cav unit which is supposed to beat monks, and battlefield upgrades tend to make the strongest units even stronger which increases the difference.

    _________Designed to match Original STW gameplay.


    Beta 8 + Beta 8.1 patch + New Maps + Sound add-on + Castles 2

  27. #117
    warning- plot loss in progress Senior Member barocca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8

    there are only level 2 temples in the startpos file,

    but the AI clans DO cheat on builds,

    all items take only 1 turn in the AI queue (they have worksundays permanently enabled)

    AI gets the same bonus with troops as well. (ships take 1 turn)
    The winds that blows -
    ask them, which leaf on the tree
    will be next to go.

  28. #118

    Default Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8

    damn that sucks. i gesu i ca go into the start pros. and edit the building creation in the provinces with temple complex.

    so that way when they do bribe the units they can't refeinforce their numbers.


    brocca how do you chage the game to not allow the ai to have work sundays.

    i would much greatly like to play on expert diff and do it completly legit without cheats. but its hard when well you know you read the above i mention..

    ----
    one thing i also notice in the game that some faction have treatys whith there century past counter parts like lets take takada and usegi they shouldn't be allying with them selfs..

    sanada should be allways allied with the takada unless the player choose to attack.
    oda and mori is fine but the mori clan and some others should not have the ability to build gun units for they love the tradtional way of warfare..(there are some others like that as well.."

    (ohh yeah i forgot to ask..)



    brocca. ra's and any others.

    i like you guy's enjoy the MTW system i don't like the rome egine beside seige battles and the new and improved calvary...

    but i was wondering if you would be willing to finish sombody else work which they just don't care for anymore cause they moved onto a bigger project and are pretty much not coming back.

    the mod is somthing like. 80% done but they don't have a working campmap jus custom battle's no historical battle of historical campaigns.

    the camp map they do have doesn't have descriptions of the units nor does it have portaits for tyhe buildings when you try to right click anytrhing.

    the units come up but the buildings on another type of culture build ctd when you try .

    all in all the bifs and battle already done.

    ---------
    its middle earth total war. i have the link where you can get the 7.0 beta-camp map patch to 7.0 to 7.0a and the patch of the 7.0a to 7.1a

    alt of ppl like me don't like the rome total war egine and perfer the mtw egine of play .

    and since the dev team of middle earth for mtw. have disbanded the project and gone to other things.

    im sure i could get sombody who is highly educated in the world of lord of the rings im pretty knowledgable my self but not enough ot satisfy the customers who will download it.
    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

  29. #119

    Default Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8

    Just a note:

    i've invaded Totomi from Shinano the other day and the map wasn't that flat field of Totomi, that i knew from Shogun, but rather a very hilly wooded map that i reckognised as a shape but cannot name.

    If this is a known issue then please disregard the post.

    Many Thanks

    Noir

  30. #120
    warning- plot loss in progress Senior Member barocca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8

    Bonfire, if you email me
    barocca_x@
    hotmail.com

    about middle earth files

    cheers
    B.
    The winds that blows -
    ask them, which leaf on the tree
    will be next to go.

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