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Thread: Battlefield ninjas...

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  1. #1

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    Aright, I want them, I hope you guys do to , anyway, what will they be like? Are they expensive? What else more? Maybe I'm obsessed (I am, ). What are your guys' oppinions?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Senior Member Shiro's Avatar
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    Word is they may not be so historical. I'll let FWSeal or the like handle that though.
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  3. #3
    Member Member horatio's Avatar
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    I just think they are of interest because they seem like they will operate in a totally unique way on the battlefield. It hopefully adds one more element of complexity and surprise.

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    karoshi Senior Member solypsist's Avatar
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    there's a slew of threads follwing this one (from a few months back) that do a decent job of shedding some light on the subject. Check 'em out.

  5. #5
    Member Member ShadowKill's Avatar
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    OR we could just talk about them again!!!

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    Member Member Mu5a5hiMiyam0t0's Avatar
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    Historically accurate? A video game? Never...

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  7. #7
    Member Member Yoshitsune's Avatar
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    Its a shame the designers have ruled out the ability to include/exclude certain tactical and strategic elements from the game. That way people who relish fantasy elements like battlefield ninja, deadly geisha, ashigaru crossbowmen etc can keep them in for the sake of variety and those who enjoy facing the same challenges as history can edit them out. Even better let the player 'mod' troop types allowing, for instance, the creation of 13th Century samurai (eg heavy cavalry archers) to increase immersion.

    Unfortunately I for one won't be buying the expansion with the fantasy units hardwired in as we now know to be the case.

  8. #8
    Member Member Irving's Avatar
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    i have loads of fun with just my normal ninjas. i can't wait to get them on the battle field!

    ------------------
    Chaos is born from order.
    Cowardice is born from bravery.
    Weakness is born from strength.
    -Sun Tzu
    Chaos is born from order.
    Cowardice is born from bravery.
    Weakness is born from strength.
    -Sun Tzu

  9. #9

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    Mu5a5hiMiyam0t0>>

    I hope that t'was a jest. To me, it seems... a shame, really, that certain aspects of S:TW and, perhaps, the expansion, appear to be based more on traditional gaming conventions (such as the presence of superunits -- the Geisha assassins, in particular, come to mind) than on the rich amount of source material that's available.

    ...and I'm not talking about Hollywood cinema or RPG supplements ala _Oriental Adventures_. At least, the warrior monks can't fly or use mystic chi gung powers.

    But then, I'm the sort of chap that would have preferred a more-detailed hex-based map with, say, roads, bridges, movement points / terrain-based costs, population effects, and what-not.

    It looks suspiciously like the BNs come equipped with either mystic chi powers or Predator-class camoflauged power armor, if they can hide themselves in full sunlight regardless of terrain or vegetation (as the QT responses imply). Nightime, or in thick grass (or heavier cover) -- sure. But I'll not be happy if, say, a soldiers staring in the right direction at fairly close range won't notice a BN standing smack dab in the center of a bridge at noon.


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    Member Member edRonin's Avatar
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    I believe that BFNs were created to counter campers in the online games. I think they were designed reduce the effectiveness of camping because a camped taisho is very vulnerable to BFNs where a moving taisho is alot harder to hit. I've read alot of complaints on the forums about campers and how they are ruining the online games. I never play online so I can't comment about this (although it simply seems like good tactics if you are the defender). If the threat of BFNs reduces the amount of camping and increaces the playability of online game then it is worth the historical innacuracy it introduces.

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  11. #11

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    On camping -- well, one could handle that with different objectives for an online battle, such as 'Must remain on field' for a tie, and 'Must clear enemy from field' for a win.

    Under certain conditions, it makes sense for both sides to "lose" a battle if their objectives aren't just opposite; for instance, attackers may have the objective of capturing a fortress, while defenders get the objective of ejecting all attackers from the battlefield. If the attack fails but the besiegers are still largely in place, then neither succeeded.

    Strategically speaking, an attacker might really not care that much if a significantly smaller defending army 'camps' in, say, mountains or hills, if the attacker can bypass/surround them and controls passes, roads, villages, and so forth; if the defenders in such a case want to contest the province, they may well have to leave their refuge and take the offensive.

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  12. #12
    Member Member Irving's Avatar
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    what bugs me is that some of these campers always defend and rack up victories that might come easy.

    ------------------
    Chaos is born from order.
    Cowardice is born from bravery.
    Weakness is born from strength.
    -Sun Tzu
    Chaos is born from order.
    Cowardice is born from bravery.
    Weakness is born from strength.
    -Sun Tzu

  13. #13
    Member Member sugargun's Avatar
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    i`ve never played the game online but wouldn`t it make sense to let the "attacker" choose the terrain??

    if the attacker chooses the terrain it will make it harder for the defender to just camp, because the attacker will choose a lowland province?!! and this would force the defender to make some tactical decisions.

    anyways, about BFN- i am looking forward to whatever addition to this already great game CA can give us!! all i want is a wider choice of units this will add alot replay value to the game!!

    [This message has been edited by sugargun (edited 03-28-2001).]

  14. #14

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    Online, hrm. If there were an incentive (more honor, or more starting koku... or simply pride) to choosing a difficult terrain, then perhaps. Otherwise, most attackers would choose flatlands, and that might get dull after a while...

    A bidding system could be used. If the a province was chosen first (perhaps randomly; or both choose one, and a coin is flipped), the two sides could bid koku to decide who gets to be the attacker (koku = advantage, in koku, given to attacker... or penalty, if negative bid); the lower bid gets it. If equal bids, then it's a meeting engagement with neither side getting either attacker (koku bonus/penalty) or defender advantages (placement and clock). ;-)


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    He is justly served; It is a poison temper'd by himself.
    He is justly served; It is a poison temper'd by himself.

  15. #15
    Member Member henryh's Avatar
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    I'm sure the battlefield ninjas aren't that amazing I'm sure that the are probably visible when opponents are close, like men in trees or when they move. As always players should look for tell-tales just the way we do when we know there might be a Warrior Monk or No Dachi hides in the Woods. I like the idea of a stealth unit in the games that have similiar characters there is a nice sensation of paranoia that all gamers love.

  16. #16
    Member Member Irving's Avatar
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    I agree with you sugargun.. but the host ususally picks to be the defender and when you join..... yes, that's right, you become the attacker in some insane mountain map and they sit there and say.. "C'mon.. are you attacking or what?" ...........cowards, probably because they nknow they will lose any other way

    ------------------
    Chaos is born from order.
    Cowardice is born from bravery.
    Weakness is born from strength.
    -Sun Tzu
    Chaos is born from order.
    Cowardice is born from bravery.
    Weakness is born from strength.
    -Sun Tzu

  17. #17
    Member Member lei's Avatar
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    but then, isn't that the point of defending? if u want a fair free for all war, play green or totomi (although they are getting a bit worn now) where camping isn't an option. in my opinion, if u chose to attack the taisho atop mount everest, u've lost before you've started. i claim victory over campers by not waltzing into their traps in the first place

    and as for battlefield ninjas...

    i think it's bad enough when cavalry charge your taisho, but at least u can turn round and fight them.

    i reckon ninjas will just become the shogun equivalent of ra2's stupid units, ie: tanyas or whatever, u know the ones that blow up your whole base before you even notice them, the ones that decide the whole game without as much as a good ruck, in true samauri style

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  18. #18
    Member Member Irving's Avatar
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    I find it hard to play campers.... if you don't attack, and they don't attack... you could be sitting there a long time

    ------------------
    Chaos is born from order.
    Cowardice is born from bravery.
    Weakness is born from strength.
    -Sun Tzu
    Chaos is born from order.
    Cowardice is born from bravery.
    Weakness is born from strength.
    -Sun Tzu

  19. #19
    Member Member T-01's Avatar
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    um the whole point of attacking is to attack the enemy on whatever terrain u use, if you attack a enemy on highlands then that is your choice, either pack up a really big army (2000 plus troops or something) and atack enemy taht way either enemys gonna run or he gonna try to defend it.

    course if your armies are almost equal and your attacking on highland, now you must use your tactics. that is the whole point of attacking.

    also if you like lowlands then we are the same i like big massacres on 1 field i dont use shyte @ss tactics when im on lowland, i just attack with force or if im defending i attack them first, simple.

    "P5334 M3!"

  20. #20
    Member Member lei's Avatar
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    back to the ninjas?.....
    TIGER LILY!!!
    check it out for yourself at: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tom.surman/frames.html

  21. #21
    Member Member T-01's Avatar
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    um it b realy cool to see 2 ninja groups fight O_O they might jump around each other or do tricks o_o um.......
    "P5334 M3!"

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