Jade Empire

[econ21]

I picked up Jade Empire for the PC the other day - the "adventure RPG" label was a concern for me, but Bioware are probably the most consistently high quality CRPG developers, so it was still a "must-buy".

First impressions:

Character creation - is very limited, but for as a first for me, I spent a couple of hours restarting. You have only about 7 different character appearances to choose from, although you can customise their stats. I eventually plumped for Monk Zeng - the rest had rather inane looking faces, but he looked the part of a young formiddable Spirit Monk.

Combat - it took a bit of time getting used to (the pirates on the beach led to many reloads), but it is pretty fun now. I mainly just attack and leap, but it can be fun - fighting Gao the Lesser was intense.

Story - started out pretty bland; I wondered whether I would get past the first couple of hours - it just did not grip me. But then after you go to the spirit cave, it gradually ratchets up to an excellent Chapter 1 finale. There are quite a few impressive cinematics and the gameplay flows with the story. Now, I am quite keen to start Chapter 2.

Characters - the NPCs are generally excellent. Their faces are strangely better than your PCs and the voice work is first rate. Whoever did Gao the lesser deserves an award - it was perfect. And Dawn Star is in the Bastilla-mold of an interesting female companion. Meeting her decided me to restart with a male character, to explore the romance angle. The Sagacious Yu has the best name in the game and also is a pretty strong character so far.

Graphics - KOTORish, but a lot smoother than NWN2. Has a nice Chinese feel - not as generic as most other Bioware games since BG2.

Bottomline - looks like a nice story-driven cinematic CRPG. Makes me look forward to Mass Effect and Dragon Age even more.

[TinCow]

I will definitely be picking it up. I was highly annoyed when it was originally announced as console-only.

[Crandaeolon]

Just finished the first playthrough, thanks to a perfectly timed vacation week. I'll try to expand on econ's impressions a bit.

Jade Empire is a very good game, if a bit short and quite linear. Still, better this way than artificially lengthened games like Neverwinter Nights 2 - JE has far superior pacing, and after the first playthrough there should be enough meat left for another go. (I played NWN2 with a Warlock character and quit about halfway through the game - combat and exploration bits were so frighteningly tiresome. I suppose the class is partially to blame, casting Eldritch Blast over and over and over again got old eventually. But I digress.)

Character development is simplistic in JE; there's only a few stats to develop, plus combat styles. Item collection is reduced to gems that improve your abilities, and a few plot items and other trinkets. (There are no armors, rings, amulets or other paraphernalia, and only a couple of new weapons.) Combat styles and techniques are the main "collectibles." Perhaps a bit surprisingly, this streamlined system works rather well - it keeps the focus on story and action, the main points of the game.

The story is well crafted and perhaps the strongest aspect of the game. Even though the beginning appears uninteresting, a lot of non-apparent stuff can be deduced from NPC reactions and dialogue. Pretty much everything is laid out on the table early on, and sizable chunks of the plot can be figured out from the foreshadowing.

The "evil" path is quite well developed, almost to the point of creepiness. There's some mightily questionable stuff you can do, so villains should have a heyday here.

NPCs are generally well written and have interesting stories, though interaction with them is limited. You can't affect their stats in any way. Strong good or evil characters can affect NPC personality, and romance subplots are a tad more developed than in other games - you can have same-sex romances for both sexes and a particularly happy ending for a male character.

Combat has some minor flaws, but overall it's a satisfying experience, much more so than the borefest of NWN2. (Damn you Warlock! Damn you!) Finally some developers grasp that in combat-oriented games (and let's face it, most RPGs do have a lot of combat), it's usually a good idea to have an interesting combat system. Who could have thought?

Some combat styles are not quite balanced, Storm Dragon and Hidden Fist in particular are almost cheating. Jade Golem too, but it requires a heavier point investment to be effective and becomes available much later. Switching styles rapidly to produce never-ending combos is a bit too effective also. I'd advise to "hold back" a bit and resort to these tricks only if the particular fight is too challenging otherwise.

That's it for now, I'll be back if something else comes to mind.

[Bijo]

I think I may have made a blood oath to somebody to get this game Or-- eh... something like that.

Hmm, €40, not bad. I might order it right now, but then I'd be playing too much I think.

You guys know what the system requirements are?

[Crandaeolon]

System Requirements
-------------------

*Minimum System Requirements

Windows XP

* Pentium 4 1.8 GHz or AMD Athlon 1800XP
* 512 MB RAM
* 8 GB free HD space
* 1x or better DVD-ROM drive
* NVIDIA GeForce 6200 or ATI 9500 or better (Shader Model 2.0 required)
* 100% DirectX 9.0 compatible sound card and drivers.
* DirectX 9.0 February 2006 (Included)


*Recommended System Requirements

Windows XP

* 3 GHz Intel Pentium 4 or equivalent processor
* 1 GB RAM
* 8 GB free HD space
* 1x or better DVD-ROM drive
* ATI X600 series, NVIDIA GeForce 6800 series, or higher recommended
* 100% DirectX 9.0 compatible sound card and drivers.
* DirectX 9.0 February 2006 (Included)

Shader 2.0 is the biggest hurdle, otherwise pretty low reqs. Runs very smoothly at recommended specs.

[lars573]

I picked up Jade Empire for the PC the other day - the "adventure RPG" label was a concern for me, but Bioware are probably the most consistently high quality CRPG developers, so it was still a "must-buy".

First impressions:

Character creation - is very limited, but for as a first for me, I spent a couple of hours restarting. You have only about 7 different character appearances to choose from, although you can customise their stats. I eventually plumped for Monk Zeng - the rest had rather inane looking faces, but he looked the part of a young formiddable Spirit Monk.

It's exactly the same as KOTORS. I did what I usually do, male warrior, and went.

Combat - it took a bit of time getting used to (the pirates on the beach led to many reloads), but it is pretty fun now. I mainly just attack and leap, but it can be fun - fighting Gao the Lesser was intense.

It was desgined to work better with a controller.

Story - started out pretty bland; I wondered whether I would get past the first couple of hours - it just did not grip me. But then after you go to the spirit cave, it gradually ratchets up to an excellent Chapter 1 finale. There are quite a few impressive cinematics and the gameplay flows with the story. Now, I am quite keen to start Chapter 2.

Characters - the NPCs are generally excellent. Their faces are strangely better than your PCs and the voice work is first rate. Whoever did Gao the lesser deserves an award - it was perfect. And Dawn Star is in the Bastilla-mold of an interesting female companion. Meeting her decided me to restart with a male character, to explore the romance angle. The Sagacious Yu has the best name in the game and also is a pretty strong character so far.

Gao the lesser is Nathan Fillon. Captain Renolds from Serenity.

Graphics - KOTORish, but a lot smoother than NWN2. Has a nice Chinese feel - not as generic as most other Bioware games since BG2.

Bottomline - looks like a nice story-driven cinematic CRPG. Makes me look forward to Mass Effect and Dragon Age even more.

It's basically KOTORS engine with a lighting system. I've had a few times where I had to stop. Like when fighting the pirates and now fighting Deathshand.

[Bijo]

Thanks for the specs, Crandaeolon. I'll definitely get this baby... should run flawlessly. In fact, I'm gonna order it right now.

[econ21]

I played on a bit into Chapter 2 and it has not disappointed. Quests included finding someone a husband and helping an old lady who had been conned. This is not the incessant combat I feared when I heard the label "action RPG". I thought that label was for boring hack n slash like Diablo or Dungeon Siege. But I guess the action part relates to the fact that your manual dexterity affects the outcome of the battle. So far Jade Empire is not a million miles away from KOTOR in its emphasis on character, dialogue and story telling, with similar amounts of combat.

Maybe it will get boring later, but so far, so good. (said the man falling past the 19th floor).

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

I picked this up last week, and finished it a few days ago. It was substantially shorter than KOTOR-it took me just over 15 hours, and I was doing the subplots-but I 'm still extremely satisfied with the game in general, and the storyline in particular. Definitely worth a look if you like CRPGs.

I just wish games with plots this strong would come out more often.

[The Spartan (Returns)]

i played and beat it some time ago.
its pretty fun. it feels a lot like Oblivion.
but the action is alot of jump-go hit.
btw there are multiple endings.

[Bijo]

Have played some of it this evening. It's a damn good game, though the animation and its reaction leave a lot to be desired. Gameplay is pretty cool, so is the story. The graphics are nice enough, and the sound is okay.

Aren't that far yet, but I'm already predicting certain events

[econ21]

Ten hours in and it keeps getting better. Tien's Landing was excellent - the plot has more narrative drive than Bioware's usual offerings, perhaps because it does not feel obliged to offer much non-linearity. I'm getting into the combat too.

My only complaint is the NPCs - they are too interesting, but you can only take one at a time (and they are a little gimped in combat). It would be fun to have a bigger party and more interaction with and between the NPCs, KOTOR style.

[Andres]

Can someone please delete this thread. I resisted the temptation of buying this game already twice.

I don't have time for gaming at the moment and I still want to play M2TW.

Having two games available which I absolutely want to play and no time to play even one of them will end up in serious brain damage ...

So please, delete this thread before I go and buy this wonderfull game which will result in the above mentioned brain damage.

[econ21]

Buy it quick and play it before the M2TW patch comes out. I've paused with M2TW because of the shield bug. Jade Empire makes the wait for the patch less excruciating.

Thinking about it, Jade Empire to me most closely resembles the Kotors - great cinematic story-driven RPGs. There's less stats and stuff, but I've never understood why that (spreadsheet) aspect was equated with roleplaying. I find the combat at least as much fun as Kotors. (I enjoy what one diffident NPC describes as the "kicking and stuff"). Some people have said it is too easy, but I die n reload several times each play session whereas I virtually never died in either kotor.

Strangely I've not picked up much praise from reviews or word of mouth, so maybe I am in a minority on this. I recall Fragony thinking it poor but don't think he gave a reason.

[Bijo]

Go on Andres. Get the game already and get some brain damage. I know you want to play it.. you cannot resist! :P I've already set aside M2TW 'cause I got sick of it months ago. Let us continue this thread, just for you



I don't know about the combat, but I actually enjoy both this one and KotOR's. I actually find KotOR's slightly easier than JE's. It's a lot of button-mashing, though, with occasional style switching. I would've preferred a combat (or general control) mode with which you could pull of small and big-ass moves in fluent controlling schemes, like Jedi Knight series or something, still together with the style switching to make it more interesting, and without the lock-on target option. It'd just make a more refined battle system, that needs very good and fast hand-eye coordination, coupling and combining moves and to look for holes in the enemy's defense. I hate mindless button-mashing :P
If I die in a fight, it's because the battle partner isn't effective, and we're being overwhelmed.

What I dislike more about JE is that it doesn't tell you that much of how to play the game, or maybe I'm too quick and stubborn to just go on, heh heh. In KotOR everything was perfectly clear in information to me. JE just throws me into a dark pit from the start, though I learn quickly.

The story also isn't that deep either, at least not to me. Still, it's quite enjoyable for a change, and the game world is put together nicely. It feels realistic enough.

I wouldn't mind to have some more interaction KotOR style either to make things more interesting. I've got a day off given to me freely.... what good timing they have(!)... so I think I'll play some more today

[Andres]

Buy it quick and play it before the M2TW patch comes out. I've paused with M2TW because of the shield bug. Jade Empire makes the wait for the patch less excruciating.

Go on Andres. Get the game already and get some brain damage. I know you want to play it.. you cannot resist! :P I've already set aside M2TW 'cause I got sick of it months ago. Let us continue this thread, just for you

You guys are so evil...

Must... resist... temptation....

[Bob the Insane]

Hmmm...

MTW2 patch la week or two, Stalker on 20 March, Armed Assualt needs a new patch, EU3 - you can only take so much hard core strategy at once....

Hmmm... Liked KotoR, liked KotoR2...


Hmmm...

[Bijo]

Hmmm...

MTW2 patch la week or two, Stalker on 20 March, Armed Assualt needs a new patch, EU3 - you can only take so much hard core strategy at once....

Hmmm... Liked KotoR, liked KotoR2...


Hmmm...

Those "Hmmm"'s that I see look very promising! Add to that the foregoing "you can only take so much hard core strategy at once...." and that you liked KotOR. I think we have another person here who finds it hard to resist getting JE Come on, Bob man... you know it's good. You know it's logical to get it, as shown in your words and you know you want to. Come on, come onnnnn. The longer you wait, the crazier you might get. Maybe you'll be sorry in the end if you don't get it now, therefore you can't risk the chance... meaning you must get it! Don't try to resist.... it is futile. Your only option is to get it and rejoice as you play this game that has earned its praise so well. Let's to it, pell-mell!






I have some further comments about JE. One to be more exact: seems there's a strange "bug" sometimes when there's a transition (or loading screen) to another area.... Sometimes the camera view is totally messed up, and it's solved - if you can - by going back to the previous area (or just another area) (and then returning again) to correct it.

[econ21]

I have some further comments about JE. One to be more exact: seems there's a strange "bug" sometimes when there's a transition (or loading screen) to another area.... Sometimes the camera view is totally messed up, and it's solved - if you can - by going back to the previous area (or just another area) (and then returning again) to correct it.

Yup - I've had that bug several times (leaving the Boat House; after defeating mother). Fortunately, my painful deaths in combat mean I have gotten into the habit of saving often, so it's not a biggie.

[Crandaeolon]

If you mean the camera pointing at floor bug, you can fix it by simply saving the game, quitting to title screen, and reloading - no need to revert to a previous save game.

[Bijo]

I suspect you can also just quicksave it and then immediately quickload it to save time, but it's just a guess. I'll have to try it out.

What difficulty are you guys playing it at? When I started I just did the standard one, but I quickly reverted to easy just to get the hang of it and reduce possible frustration, heh heh

And what path are you guys following? For some reason I can't even think of doing "evil deeds" in there.

[econ21]

Saving and immediately reloading does not work, although I have not tried going to the main menu first.

I'm playing on normal difficulty and finding it just right. I've never been tempted by the closed fist - being mean does not seem to fit the story, although apparently there is a strong "evil" path worked out.

[Crandaeolon]

Yep quicksave & immediate reload doesn't work, you gotta visit the title screen first.

Playing on normal difficulty. First playthrough with good character was occasionally challenging due to poor min/maxing, second playthrough with evil dude has been easier.

The evil path works well. Depending on your interpretation of the backstory, it can actually be quite fitting to the main story.

[Bijo]

My second run-through will have an evil female character, heh heh. I'm now in the Imperial City taking care o' bidness.

I find the story interesting, but still find the gameplay (as in side quests, battles, and such) VERY poor. There are too many styles, too, that you just simply add like it's nothing, which doesn't feel rewarding or interesting at all. I just use that shock style to immobilize a foe, and then hack at him with another style and keep switching back and forth, or sometimes I just keep hacking. Poor battle system. Just a couple of styles that had been more complex, deep, and versatile to use would've been a lot better, than so many boring similar-looking hack-and-slash styles. I'm still in favor of a third-person delicate FPS control scheme.

All I'm doing is hustling up with the damn game as quickly as possible :P Btw, I called my character The Way. How fitting

[Crandaeolon]

Storm Dragon is admittedly cheesy, shock duration is way too long when compared to other debilitating styles. Add to that a relatively fast, shocking area attack that produces Focus orbs with harmonic combos, and imbalance is the result.

For starters, I'd suggest not playing on Easy - status effects wear off faster on Normal or higher (i think) and enemies block more and generally act smarter on higher levels. Also, putting many points into support styles means slower progress in certain areas of the game. Even if you don't invest many points into it, over-reliance on SD will get you into trouble later on against enemies immune to status effects. Picking a different martial style helps too. Leaping Tiger and Legendary Strike are good beginner styles since they have no bad disadvantages, but I've found Thousand Cuts and White Demon more interesting because of their "weaknesses", and more powerful if you get used to their quirks.

There are flaws in the combat system, but I wouldn't call it "very poor." For optimally fast fights you'll have to employ several styles and Harmonic Combos to get consistent chi-enhanced damage, chain combos, enough versatility to deal with all types of enemies and good use of focus mode. Sure, SD/martial/SD/martial is safe, but slow and boring.

IMO the combat system strikes a decent balance between accessibility and complexity, maybe a bit too much on the side of button-mashing simplicity though. But, at least you'll get some benefit (= faster progress) from smart use of styles and combos.

[Bijo]

I just use a style and if I see the foe is immune to it I just switch, see what works, and hack the schmuck until he's gone

That thing about Harmonic Combos and such I don't get. After some hours of playing the game's battle system is still vague to me regarding that. Or maybe I've pulled of these moves and didn't notice them...? Heck, I've even forgotten about Focus mode, and never used it. Those battles aren't fun anymore; they've just become chores to quickly get rid of. I've become so annoyed by it I even hustle up with those conversations by just quickly reading the dialogue and clicking them away most of the time (unless something really interesting in the plot happens.)

The more I play this game, the more impatient and agitated I get. Especially if you ask a character a question and don't receive a direct simple answer, but they start talking about other stuff that doesn't concern me atm.

Like...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Person 1: "So, then what do I have to do now?"
Person 2: "He took my power, it was years ago. It was when the world was such a beautiful place to be, before there was discord among us. Oh, I feel ill. Seest you not the torment I endure? For so many years have these evil-doers haunted my being - O th'agony of it! Takest this amulet. It will aid you in your quest. Fear not the enemy's gaze or appearance, nor their power, for your strength is great, and so is mine, as I, too, shall aid you. You look agitated. Might I ask you what has you so flustered? No, speak not. Heed my words... Your quest continues, and you shall emerge victorious. Do you understand?
Person 1: "So, what the **** do I need to do now!?!??!" ARRRRRGH!!! Never mind!!!!

[Crandaeolon]

I see your opinion of JE has changed quite... dramatically over the course of the thread!

Seriously, ramp up the difficulty or stop cheating. There's definitely something wrong if you can just blaze through the game by mashing the mouse button.

Harmonic combos are initiated with the power or area attacks of a magical or support style, see style descriptions for more info. Once you initiate a HC, a time indicator appears over the target indicator. If you manage to hit the target with any Martial style power attack within the allotted time, the target will die instantly, usually leaving a power-up. Not effective against bosses, though.

[Bijo]

Hah hah, you're right. Changed dramatically, but I've begun anew this afternoon with a second quest. This time an evil female with the Magic emphasis. For some reason I appreciate the game more now with the start a second walkthrough, and playing on normal difficulty, but I might ramp it up.

But I didn't cheat, though! The game made SD available with other styles: I was just pragmatically seeing what worked best and effectively!

I see now what that HC thing is about, so I'll try it out. It doesn't sound too complex, though. Still leaves enough button-mashing to do, which I've done a lot in my second quest already

[econ21]

I see your opinion of JE has changed quite... dramatically over the course of the thread!

How far did you get before restarting, Bijo?

For my part, I've done most of the Imperial City, Chapter 3, and my opinion of JE just keeps getting better and better. My preconception was that it was a "lite" action RPG and so missing it while it was on the Xbox was no big deal. In a way that was misconception was probably all to the good. I would have been seriously frustrated by my lack of an Xbox if I had known it was another rock solid entry in the same genre as BG, FO, NWN and KOTR etc.

As with those other CRPG titles, JE propels you forward through a decent story with excellent sidequests and NPC encounters. I've started using Stone Dragon, so the combat is getting a little easy. But that is more than made up for by the "cinematic" qualities of the game. The writing and voicework is at least as good as the kotors. And it drags less than them in places and the world seems more atmospheric and less generic. I suppose it does lack such an impressive "villain" and central story arc, but the sidequests are of very high quality. Some of the encounters are pretty intense at an emotional level. For example, with Captain Sen's nemesis, while the story itself was unremarkable something about the writing and voice acting made me quite distressed when I had to do what I had to do at the end.

[Bijo]

How far did you get before restarting, Bijo?

I got to the end of it and pretty fast too. You're in for a couple of nice surprises if you're still at Chapter 3

I don't find those NPC encounters THAT excellent though. Imo they're... decent or good at best, but maybe I'm too critical. You're right about that it doesn't have such impressive villainy and such... I think that's what I'm really missing.

What discomforts me too is that your followers are so easily gained, added like it's just another simple member. It's too simple for my tastes. I for instance would've liked if you could kill potential followers when you meet them - if you walk the evil path - and then just miss them in your party... or to just deny their entrance, but some characters are really needed for the story the way they made it.

Another simple thing that's quite likeable is when you hover over a response and you see your character's face changing according to it. Simple, but beautiful.

Btw, my evil female character looks really bad-ass in the character screen