2 questions: Famous kings and facshields

[OldSchool]

I did a search and read the discussions on these two topics, but I'm still unclear on a couple of points.

Famous Kings:
The first king in the list always works properly. Has anyone been able to make the rest of the list work as intended? I've tested this quite a bit and so far only the starting king has the correct attributes. Am I missing something, or does the list just not work?

Facshields:
I used the work-around provided by (Lysander? I believe), making custom0_ folders for the units which use facshields and it works fine. I was wondering if anyone had tried putting tga's in the facshield folder for new factions, using the faction name, thus avoiding having to do the work-around. I'm going to experiment with this and don't want to waste my time if it has already been tried.

On another note:
Thanks to all of you who take the time to write up guides and answer questions on these boards, I just finished making my first mod. I created my own pagan faction with custom units and agents and have had quite a bit of fun destroying all those One-God loonies. Everything works well, although I would like some famous kings and facshields if possible. Much thanks to all of you for sharing the knowledge.

The Pope is dead!
Long live the Big Kahuna!

[R'as al Ghul]

Famous Kings:
The first king in the list always works properly. Has anyone been able to make the rest of the list work as intended? I've tested this quite a bit and so far only the starting king has the correct attributes. Am I missing something, or does the list just not work?

The list does work but there's more than one file to edit.
Names.txt and heroes.txt iirc.

Facshields:
I was wondering if anyone had tried putting tga's in the facshield folder for new factions, using the faction name, thus avoiding having to do the work-around. I'm going to experiment with this and don't want to waste my time if it has already been tried.

Yes, you can directly edit the tga files. You only need to make sure that they stay in the same format, regarding number of colours and dimensions.

[OldSchool]

Thanks for the quick response, R'as al Ghul.

That's good news about the facshields. It will be nice to add those back in.

I'm not sure what I would edit in the names.txt for the famous kings. All the names lists that I added work correctly. It's just that the famous kings don't show up with the correct stats and VNV's.

This is the list I used for my kings. I gave them all the same attributes for testing purposes:

FAMOUS_KINGS:: FN_HEATHEN 7
//name no. c d p a portrait vnv
0, 1, 4, 5, 2, 4, -1, mightywarrior2
0, 2, 4, 5, 2, 4, -1, mightywarrior2
1, 1, 4, 5, 2, 4, -1, mightywarrior2
2, 1, 4, 5, 2, 4, -1, mightywarrior2
3, 1, 4, 5, 2, 4, -1, mightywarrior2
4, 1, 4, 5, 2, 4, -1, mightywarrior2
5, 1, 4, 5, 2, 4, -1, mightywarrior2

My starting king is William I, the first king in this list, and he shows up with the correct attributes when the game starts. When his son, William II, becomes king, he does not have the correct attributes. In fact, none of the other kings, except the starting king, shows up with the correct attributes.
According to my list; William1, William2, Michael1, John1, David1, etc. should all show up as mighty warriors. Only Wiliam1 does. The rest show up with random attributes, just like other kings.

I found some discussion about this in the archives, but couldn't see where anyone had verified that they got it to work. Am I just missing something?

Now that I think about it, I usually play as the Germans in the un-modded game, and I don't remember any of their famous kings showing up with the correct stats either, other than the starting king.

[EatYerGreens]

Hi Oldschool,

This is something I'd like to be able to do myself, so I've been looking at the various files.

Could you please post the ADD FORENAMES:: section (from campmap\names\DEFAULT_HEROES.TXT) relating to your HEATHEN faction?
(include the '//' comment header, if it's there).


I'm curious about the fact that the famous kings do not have a birth year set for them, whilst the famous generals/agents do, so I don't see how to guarantee that a particular historical king appears at his rightful birth year.


I think this means that you have to wait for a coincidence to occur: -

a) Wife gives birth: a name is randomly selected (hence the need for that number which constrains king's forenames to the first 'n' forenames in the list for a faction).
b) As soon as the forename and his "number" (e.g. "David the first") *happen to match* one on your famous list, then he should be given those stats.

In other words, if your list of famous kings is *intended* to be somewhat chronological, the randomness in the naming of newborns may cause them to emerge in the wrong order - and sometimes not at all because the right names aren't being picked.


As another example, for the English to get the "Henry V" stats, the player has to wait for the fifth occasion that the king's *firstborn* randomly got called Henry. With 8 possible names to choose from, at each generation, the odds are against accumulating several Henrys, so this could take longer than a full campaign, through all three eras, to actually occur...


Just for testing purposes, try restricting the number of acceptable king names to 3 and alter your famous king settings to William1,2,3; John1,2; David1,2 and see what happens.

[OldSchool]

Hi EatYerGreens-

These are the first names in my forenames list from HEATHEN_HEROES.txt:


// 22: heathen_forenames
ADD_FORENAMES::
"William"
"Michael"
"John"
"David"
"Randolph"
"Robert"
"Richard"
...

This is my list of famous kings:

FAMOUS_KINGS:: FN_HEATHEN 7
//name no. c d p a portrait vnv
0, 1, 4, 5, 2, 4, -1, mightywarrior2 (William 1)
0, 2, 4, 5, 2, 4, -1, mightywarrior2 (William 2)
1, 1, 4, 5, 2, 4, -1, mightywarrior2 (Michael 1)
2, 1, 4, 5, 2, 4, -1, mightywarrior2 (John 1)
3, 1, 4, 5, 2, 4, -1, mightywarrior2 (David 1)
4, 1, 4, 5, 2, 4, -1, mightywarrior2 (Randolph 1)
5, 1, 4, 5, 2, 4, -1, mightywarrior2 (Robert 1)

Here is my entry in the startpos file:

SetStartLeader:: FN_HEATHEN 0 7 1 0 0 0 0 0 0

Those last seven numbers indicate how many kings of each name have existed before the game starts. So if you want Henry V to show up and not have to wait for 4 other King Henrys, you can do this. Assuming Henry is the second name in your forenames list, your entry would look like this:

SetStartLeader:: FN_HEATHEN 0 7 1 4 0 0 0 0 0

The first time a Henry becomes king, the game will take the corresponding number (4), + 1, and he will be Henry V. You can't control the exact year, but you can at least control what number he starts with when he does become king.

The heir's names are not random. Every time a new one is born, the game takes the next name in the list. So in my case, the game starts with William I. He has six sons named (in order): William, Michael, John, David, Randolph, Robert. Whichever one of these sons survive to become king, he will be either: William II, Michael I, John I, David I, Randolph I, or Robert I. His first son will be named Richard and the next one rolls back to William.

As you can see by my test setup, whoever becomes the second king should be a famous king, and it just doesn't work. All the names and numbers work, but the stats and VNV are random just like all the other kings. I usually get William II as my next king, and he never has the right attributes. I've never seen a famous king appear in the game (modded or unmodded) with the correct attributes. Only the starting king seems to work.

It will be difficult for you to duplicate historical succession, but you can try to come close by adjusting the order of the names in your forenames list and setting the appropriate numbers for what number you want each king name to start with. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like you will be able to give them the appropriate personalities when they do become king.

It just occurred to me, you probably already knew all that, but just in case, that's my understanding of how it works and it may be useful for the next guy who tries. I've tested it every way I know how. If you come up with better results, I would be interested in hearing. Good luck with your modding!

-OldSchool

[macsen rufus]

Hi Old School - I can't see a single thing wrong in what you're doing with the names. I strongly suspect it's a bug! Having said that, all I've ever done with this facility is ensure the name/characteristics of the starting king, and haven't really tried to set up a long list of famous ones. There is one other observation that may be pertinent - I very often find that my second king acquires the first king's characteristics on ascending the throne.

Let's say Henry I (good attacker) begets Prince Henry (nothing special), then dies -- Henry II is now a good attacker. Unfortunately, I don't have the vaguest recollection of which campaigns in which version/mod of the game this has occured in, so can't check the relevant heroes file. It MAY be an instance of the "famous kings" working correctly. I've never really noticed any OTHER king having any stats other than those he had as a Prince (which suggests none were "famous"), only this one transition from starting king to first heir.

It may be of no help, but maybe it adds an unsuspected piece to the jigsaw...

[EatYerGreens]

Well I definitely learned a few things from this thread!

The meaning of that list of numbers after {SetStartLeader::} is one of the few things NOT documented in the comments within that file. First prize to whoever worked that one out!

Also, I was wrong about the name selection being random and hadn't realised that the names were also being used for all of the princes, which certainly speeds up the rate of cycling.


If the heir attributes are more under the influence of game events (I've read speculation that it's down to the manner in which the user plays and/or an inverse relationship with how successful their faction has become) than this file, the thought occurs to me that maybe their intended role could be in faction re-emergences?

[OldSchool]

Hey macsen rufus-
Thanks for the confirmation on my setup. I've never seen a prince change attributes upon becoming king. If you are able to duplicate that, I would be very interested in hearing about it.


Hey EatYerGreens-
There is also some mis-information about that line in the archives. This is my understanding of it, in case you aren't already aware.
Here is the line in the startpos file:

"SetStartLeader:: FN_HEATHEN 0 - 7 - 1 0 0 0 0 0 0"

The first number indicates which famous king the faction will start with in that era. The numbering starts with 0. The second number indicates how many numbers will follow it. As I said before, the next seven numbers indicate how many kings of each name have existed before the games timeframe. These should all be one less than the number you want that name to start with. The exception is that the name of your starting king should be equal to the number you want him to start with. I guess he counts as existing before the game starts. If you use my lists as an example, if I wanted to start the game with King Michael 1, my line would look like this:

"SetStartLeader:: FN_HEATHEN 2 - 7 - 0 1 0 0 0 0 0"

The 2 is because Michael is the third name in my list (remember, it starts counting at 0). The 1 sets him to start out as Michael I. The last thing to know is that it is more efficient for the game if you leave out the trailing zeroes in that line. So that previous line should really look like this, and will give the same results:

"SetStartLeader:: FN_HEATHEN 2 - 2 - 0 1"

The game will assume zeroes after the last number you put. I put the dashes in those examples to indicate the tabs.

Just for one more example. If I wanted to start the game with King William II and I wanted the first King John to be John V, my line would look like this:

"SetStartLeader:: FN_HEATHEN 1 - 3 - 2 0 4"

It's a convoluted setup, to say the least, and hopefully that all made sense.

[EatYerGreens]

Even better sense than before.

I'd already twigged what the 7 related to, as there was some variation in the values in default file and it also matched the number found in names.txt relating to the first 'n' names for a faction being king names.

Unfortunately, just about all of them had a '0' as the first number, which meant drawing any conclusions as to its purpose was near impossible.

Just to confuse things, the only exception to that pattern was for FN_BURGUNDY, so I was left assuming it was something to do with its special status as a late-appearing faction (forgetting that this also applies to the Swiss, who have a '0' there). Thanks for clearing up that confusion.


One thing I'll need to look at more closely, next time I'm testing mod changes, is to look at the ages of all the faction leaders on turn one (I'm using -ian mode for testing). I want to see if they all start at the same age, or if it's a random mixture.

It IS possible to control the ages of the heirs (only the under-age ones, I think) but not the StartLeaders themselves.

[OldSchool]

Yes, that first number caused me quite a bit of confusion. If you have everything set up correctly, it points to the famous kings list. If you don't, it seems to point to the names list and you might end up with a King Michael Roman numeral @... or something weird.

I read a discussion in the archives that it indicated if the starting king was married (0=married, 1=unmarried). Of course, if you open up high.txt or late.txt, you will see that is not the case and can work out what it does.

I think the marriage of the starting king is determined by if he has any underage heirs or not, but I'm not sure. I wonder if his age can be controlled by adjusting the oldest heir's age? I'll do some testing myself and we can compare results.

-OldSchool

[macsen rufus]

@ Oldschool - next time I spot an heir doing that I'll be sure to pay more attention - I always save every turn so I can go back and have another look at it

I can confirm though that starting kings do not have the same age, but it does seem like they are all under 40yrs old. As a result of a mod I'm playing with now, I had cause to check all the king's ages (you only need to .matteosartori. if you forget to launch with -ian ) I discovered the 40 years thing by trying to set a start date before this (I really wanted to start at "25AD") but this results in kings being aged -65,000 years or so and dying at the end of the first turn I found the earliest I could get away with was to start in 40AD. Evidently kings have to be born on or after "0AD".

Another problem I've found with these very early start dates is that the kings almost immediately decide to stop waiting for a princess and shack up with a commoner. In my mod all my kings have heirs built in, and that doesn't guarantee that the king is "married" when he starts. (Although it might help to have a YOUNG heir, ie 1-2 yrs old, maybe, as I've only given them one, ready to mature in the first few turns.) In the end my mod was changed to a "125AD" start date, and it has stopped a lot of the kings marrying immediately. I haven't noticed if any have appeared as married from the start though.

FWIW: THE single most common mistake I make is when entering a famous king, I forget to put in an entry for the number of kings in the list in the heroes.txt file. So the game looks for an entry in famous kings and is told that there are 0 names there when there is really one. The result is always the same - the starting kings have no names, just "King I" etc !

[EatYerGreens]

Thanks to you both.

The -65,000 thing was funny! But it makes sense for a 16-bit integer going past the wrap-around point (-65536 +/- 40 yrs)


Another curiosity:- playing as the English, there comes a point where a particular succession event turns the dead king's younger brothers (no longer in line of succession) into Royal-blood generals... and it gives them the surname "Plantagenet", which is historically correct.

I lack the knowledge of other nation's histories to realise whether this is paralleled with all the other factions too but I'm willing to guess that it is and await confirmation from those who might know.

Extract from NAMES.txt

// english surnames// english surnames


	["Cromwell"]	{"Cromwell"}
	["Pole"]		{"Pole"}
	["Talbot"]		{"Talbot"}
	["Stanley"]		{"Stanley"}
	["Roos"]		{"Roos"}
	["Mobray"]		{"Mobray"}
	["Grey"]		{"Grey"}
	["Plantagenet"]	{"Plantagenet"}

Co-incidence or not, Plantagenet is the 8th name on the list (or 7th if you count from 0 upwards). However, there is no visible sign of a numerical 'pointer' to this position, so I'm left thinking that it might be hard-coded into the game.

Not having properly played any modded campaigns, to date, I can't vouch for this myself. I'd be interested to hear from, for example, a Middle-Earth TW player where, I presume, all the names have been comprehensively re-worked and one of the substitute names consistently appears on the equivalent heirs, when a similar event occurs. Or does "Plantagenet" (etc.) pop up out of nowhere, in spite of the edits?


It's interesting because the "King Michael Roman numeral @...." error gives us clues as to how the ruler names are constructed from the labels - @[Title] @[forename] @[Roman numeral] with no "embedded but hidden" surname (it seems). Which makes you wonder how/where the (e.g.) Plantagenet thing arises from.

[R'as al Ghul]

Guys I've been following this closely and now I have a question.
Here's my data for Takeda in Samurai Warlords.

SET_FORENAMES::	FN_15	14	10	// Takeda

FAMOUS_KINGS::	FN_15	8
//name	no.	c+1Max7	d	p	a	portrait	vnv
0,		1,	4,	3,	3,	2,	-1,			mightywarrior2
1,		2,	3,	3,	2,	2,	-1,			no_v
2,		1,	4,	4,	3,	2,	-1,			killer2
3,		1,	3,	4,	3,	3,	-1,			church_lover1
4,		2,	5,	4,	3,	3,	-1,			pride
5,		3,	5,	3,	2,	3,	-1,			hardtokill1
6,		3,	3,	5,	3,	3,	-1,			tyrant3
7,		4,	2,	3,	4,	2,	-1,			pious4

ADD_FORENAMES::
"stw_Takeda Shingen"
"stw_Takeda Harunobu"
"stw_Takeda Nobushige"
"stw_Takeda Tenkyu"
"stw_Takeda Katsuyori"
"stw_Takeda Nobukado"
"stw_Takeda Nobutora"
"stw_Takeda Nobutoyo"
"stw_Takeda Nobuzane"
"stw_Takeda Nobutoshi"


SetStartLeader::  FN_15 0  7	1 0 0 0 0 0 1 	// Takeda

To me it all looks good, the names under Forenames are turned into full names in the names.txt. Given the numbering under Famous Kings:: they should appear subsequently but they don't.
Instead this is the line of the Takeda:
Shingen first King and Heirs: Harunobu, Shingen
This is my Addheir line for them

AddHeir:: FN_15	0	13
AddHeir:: FN_15	1	3
AddHeir:: FN_15	1	11

The 3 year old is called Shingen and I don't understand why.
The 11 year old is Harunobu as in the list.

Where's the 2nd Shingen coming from?

R'as

[OldSchool]

Shingen first King and Heirs: Harunobu, Shingen
This is my Addheir line for them

AddHeir:: FN_15	0	13
AddHeir:: FN_15	1	3
AddHeir:: FN_15	1	11

The 3 year old is called Shingen and I don't understand why.
The 11 year old is Harunobu as in the list.

Where's the 2nd Shingen coming from?

R'as

That is interesting. When the game names the heirs, it starts with the first name in the forenames list and then goes down in order. It doesn't pay any attention to your first king's name. It looks like it reads the startpos file heirs in sequence, with no regard to age. I suspect if you switch around the 3 and 11, your royal line will become:

Shingen first King and Heirs: Shingen, Harunobu as expected.

[R'as al Ghul]

Exactly!
1st King: Shingen

Heir, 11 - Shingen
Heir, 3 - Harunobu

This is with the lines switched:

AddHeir:: FN_15	1	11
AddHeir:: FN_15	1	3

So the startpos heirs are named with no regard to the starting king.


R'as

[R'as al Ghul]

Okay, if the heirs are read top down from the forenames list,
I thought by moving Shingen to the 3rd position in the Addfornames-list and changing the Famous Kings command to

FAMOUS_KINGS::	FN_15	8
//name	no.	c+1Max7	d	p	a	portrait	vnv
2,		1,	4,	3,	3,	2,	-1,			mightywarrior2

, I'd be able to have Shigen as first King and the first two names from the list as heirs. Alas, I only got a generic King "Takeda" and lo and behold Shingen as heir, although Shingen came 3rd in the Addforenames command.

Retesting this, showed seemingly random heirs. This is totally weird.
How do I get this to work?

R'as

[EatYerGreens]

Taking the English in MTW as an example, the forenames list puts "William" in position 4 in the list (5th name), so that name won't recur until the 5th time an heir is born, and every 8th heir thereafter.

Putting "William" at the top of the forenames list seems logical enough, given that they start with William II in Early but, as you've illustrated, the game mechanics will simply give rise to an ahistorical William III as his heir.

I can see that CA opted for a method which works consistently, regardless of which era you start in and side-stepped having to write more complex code to deal with the "special case" of Era_1 turn_1.

The forenames list has been written in a very carefully thought-out and specific sequence, to make it all work. It need not necessarily be set out in historical order, as the numerical pointers (in FamousKings::) let you pluck names out of the list from any position.


I would suggest setting the following :-

"Shingen" as the last forename deemed to be king-suitable (7th or 8th position on your forename list, not sure how many names you want as faction leaders)

"Haronobu" as the first forename

SetStartLeader:: calls for name number 'n' = "Shingen" (and zero previous leaders with this name, unless desired)

AddHeir:: will look after Haronobu and all the others should follow in sequence, with the cycle repeating every 7 or 8 heirs sons.


The tricky part is where the game gives you large numbers of heirs sons during a leader's lifetime, such that the eventual sequence of faction leaders' names, as the campaign progresses, quickly departs from history... there's nothing that can be done about this, as far as I can tell.


Incidentally, are any of your "Hero kings" (apart from the one defined by SetStartLeader) coming out with their appropriate stats and VnV's? See earlier in the thread where there was an unresolved problem getting this to work. If yours do, we wanna know how!

[barocca]

one other hint if all else fails,
(in the sam mod there is a new heroes.txt file) try forcing the startpos file to use the default_hero file (and rename the samurai heroe file TO default_hero - or however it is spelt)

let me know if that solves the problem
(ALSO make sure all kings names also appear in the names file in the correct faction list)

let me know,
cheers,
B.

[R'as al Ghul]

I would suggest setting the following :-

"Shingen" as the last forename deemed to be king-suitable (7th or 8th position on your forename list, not sure how many names you want as faction leaders)

"Haronobu" as the first forename

SetStartLeader:: calls for name number 'n' = "Shingen" (and zero previous leaders with this name, unless desired)

AddHeir:: will look after Haronobu and all the others should follow in sequence, with the cycle repeating every 7 or 8 heirs sons.

I've done that. Put Shingen on position # 6.
Result:
Shingen - acting King (means the pointer from FamousKing:: is okay)
Shingen - eldest son
Harunobu - secod son

Perhaps it's hardcoded that the eldest son is named after daddy?

R'as

[OldSchool]

I've done that. Put Shingen on position # 6.
Result:
Shingen - acting King (means the pointer from FamousKing:: is okay)
Shingen - eldest son
Harunobu - secod son

Perhaps it's hardcoded that the eldest son is named after daddy?

R'as

Can you post your current forenames list, famous kings list, and setleader line from the starpos file?

[R'as al Ghul]

I will.

[EatYerGreens]

Well, I've now completed the Add_New_Faction tutorial to add the Dutch...
(Addingnewfactionguide1.1.pdf by starkhorn)
...and I've managed to reproduce the problem exactly.

This is not helped by the fact that he first instructs you to type this:-

(page 18 of 30)

Something like the below line would be ok.

SetStartLeader: FN_FREE21 0 3 0 0 1

then there's a few pages worth of setting up strings...

then he refers back to this earlier addition but writes it with a subtle difference.

(page 22 of 30)

So do you remember back in the dutch.txt file we added the below line?

SetStartLeader: FN_FREE21 0 3 0 0 2

So {3 0 0 1} has changed to {3 0 0 2}.

My previous understanding (I forget where I got this idea from - it was post #5) was that those digits denote the number of kings who have previously had that name, i.e. prior to the defined start date of the campaign but he confounds that by saying: -

The 0 0 2 means that the next king with the 3rd forename in our forename list (in our case Domaes) will be King Domaes the II. The 2 denotes that he is the 2nd king with the name Domaes.

EDIT:
Apologies to OldSchool here, who did say (post #8) that the starting king is the exception to the rule (my emphasis)
-end of edit-

I think that the fact we are able to get our StartLeaders to come out with the correct name and number means that he's right. EDIT: "he's" referring to starkhorn, here

That seems to suggest that there is something about the default behaviour of AddHeir:: which is causing the son to be named after the father.

I'll do some more experimenting and report back later.

------------
EDIT: later

1) -ian mode reveals that this son-father name sharing is common across ALL factions!
2) Repeat the test but, in the era file, changed : -
//SetNameData:: "campmap\\names\\test_names.txt" use default
SetNameData:: "campmap\\names\\EYG_HEROES.txt"

to

//SetNameData:: "campmap\\names\\test_names.txt" use default
SetNameData:: "campmap\names\EYG_HEROES.txt"

Result: no difference to the princes but it was interesting to see that one '\' instead of two did not stop the campaign working or the right names being used. Makes you wonder why the '\\' in the first place. (Not to be confused with the '//' rem marker, of course)

3) Next, I tried barocca's aliasing suggestion, renaming my EYG_HEROES.txt to DEFAULT_HEROES.txt and remming out the line in the era file (as above) which called for EYG_HEROES.

Result: same again

-----------


@barocca,

nice to see you around. There's a 4-year old thread in Repository that I wanted to reply to but can't. Should I PM you, or is there an easier way?

[EatYerGreens]

Further experimentation has helped me discover that you CAN use an age above 15 in the AddHeir:: entry.

All that happens is that, on turn one, the heirs parchment lists them as "unassigned" and, after pressing end-turn, their unit appears on the map.

For micro-factions, this is a mixed blessing - at the same time bolstering the defence of their one-and-only province during the crucial few turns before training facilities are built, as well as saddling them with maintainance costs which the AI can't escape.


I then thought of a work-around for the son being named after the father. A 'throwaway' heir, who dies off in the first few turns of the game.

Using -ian mode to browse all factions on turn one, I discovered that: -

1) the ages of the kings are not all identical, confirming a recent forum post
2) there's a randomness to it but all are in their 30's to 40's

So what happens if I use AddHeir:: and make the heir *older than* the king?

I used age 55 for this test, to be certain. Just as well, as it turned out...

EYG_HEROES.txt

FAMOUS_KINGS::	FN_FREE21	3
//name	no.	c	d	p	a	portrait	vnv
2,		2,	2,	5,	4,	3,	-1,			attacker1
1,		1,	2,	2,	3,	3,	-1,			defender1
7,		1,	2,	5,	4,	3,	-1,			educated2


// 20:	dutch_forenames
ADD_FORENAMES::
"Dirick"
"Adolf"
"Domaes"
"Walram"
"Hendrik"
"Rutgheer"
"Vlas"
"Willem"
"Walraven"

(only the names as far as Willem are king-names)

Era file...

SetStartLeader::  FN_FREE21 0		3	0 0 1
(I've changed this from the way it was originally in the tutorial pdf)

Now the sequence of AddHeir:: entries may have been significant here

(A)
AddHeir:: FN_FREE21 0 9
AddHeir:: FN_FREE21 1 10
AddHeir:: FN_FREE21 1 55

(B)
AddHeir:: FN_FREE21 0 9
AddHeir:: FN_FREE21 1 55
AddHeir:: FN_FREE21 1 10


(A)
Game starts with King Domaes I, age approximately 37
Prince Domaes is age 10
(likewise all other factions have sons named after fathers)
On turn two, the age 55 heir appears with his unit of RK's
This is Prince Walram and he is marked as in line for the throne

In something unnervingly reminiscent of the 'age 56' bug, "Uncle" Walram dutifully dies off within two or three turns, leaving a Royal-Blood general (who can be disbanded later, when funds are tight and other princes arrive).

When Domaes I gets to 55-ish, he also dies off so, in less than 20-30 turns we have the King Domaes II we originally planned to have, complete with the "expert attacker" VnV we were hoping for. Not a bad approximation.

EDIT: Correction: It was "skilled attacker" actually

(B)
This time the age-55 heir is "Uncle" Domaes and again dies off quite soon.
The age 10 heir is now Prince Walram (the 'desired' succession sequence)
It will be several generations before the co-incidence occurs of the name Domaes for the eldest son but he will, again, become Domaes II, so he'll have the required stats.



So try method (B) for the STW mod.

[OldSchool]

(A)

When Domaes I gets to 55-ish, he also dies off so, in less than 20-30 turns we have the King Domaes II we originally planned to have, complete with the "expert attacker" VnV we were hoping for. Not a bad approximation.

I'm having video driver issues at the moment, so testing has been difficult.

Did Domanes II have the "expert attacker" vnv when he came of age, or did he aquire it when he became king? If he had it when he came of age, it might be a case of inheriting the trait, rather than getting it from the famous kings list. Also, were all his stats the same as the famous kings entry?

If so, that will be good news, indeed. At least it will be proof that the list works beyond the starting king.

[EatYerGreens]

Did Domanes II have the "expert attacker" vnv when he came of age, or did he aquire it when he became king? If he had it when he came of age, it might be a case of inheriting the trait, rather than getting it from the famous kings list. Also, were all his stats the same as the famous kings entry?

If so, that will be good news, indeed. At least it will be proof that the list works beyond the starting king.

It was only when he took over the throne that he gained "Skilled attacker" (parchment-type announcement) and all the other stats were as expected.

So it seems we're in luck with that, as well.

(He did get given two VnV's when he came of age, too, but those were just random)


This also demonstrates that it's not compulsory for the StartLeader to have their stats set in the heroes list. Domaes I just came up with 'average' stats and no VnVs. The game then awaits a name & number match with the heroes list to arise.

Hang on a mo: I've only got as far as the first entry on the heroes list itself. I'll get back to you after some further test sessions, to see if there's any signs of the 2nd, 3rd etc hero's stats appearing in the game.

[macsen rufus]

This is some useful research, EYG! Keep it coming

[EatYerGreens]

This is some useful research, EYG! Keep it coming

Unfortunately, I can't. Progress has ground to a halt, due to a slight problem with a disappeared mod and I'm currently awaiting assistance/suggestions in that thread.


EDIT: Problem sorted out now.

[R'as al Ghul]

Look at the bolded part. That must've been inserted by barocca, I believe.
Is that some kind of secret formula, barocca?
Anyway, result of this setup is as quoted below.

SetStartLeader::  FN_15 	0		7	1 0 0 0 0 0 1

SET_FORENAMES::	FN_15	15	7	// Takeda

FAMOUS_KINGS::	FN_15	8
//name	no.	c+1Max7	d	p	a	portrait	vnv
6,		1,	4,	3,	3,	2,	-1,			mightywarrior2
0,		2,	3,	3,	2,	2,	-1,			no_v
1,		1,	4,	4,	3,	2,	-1,			killer2
2,		1,	3,	4,	3,	3,	-1,			church_lover1
3,		2,	5,	4,	3,	3,	-1,			pride
4,		3,	5,	3,	2,	3,	-1,			hardtokill1
5,		3,	3,	5,	3,	3,	-1,			tyrant3
2,		4,	2,	3,	4,	2,	-1,			pious4

// Takeda FN_15 No 14
ADD_FORENAMES::
"stw_Takeda Harunobu"
"stw_Takeda Nobushige"
"stw_Takeda Tenkyu"
"stw_Takeda Katsuyori"
"stw_Takeda Nobukado"
"stw_Takeda Nobutora"
"stw_Takeda Shingen"
.....

Can you post your current forenames list, famous kings list, and setleader line from the starpos file?

I've done that. Put Shingen on position # 6.
Result:
Shingen - acting King (means the pointer from FamousKing:: is okay)
Shingen - eldest son
Harunobu - secod son

Perhaps it's hardcoded that the eldest son is named after daddy?

R'as

[EatYerGreens]

R'as,

have you seen message #23, from me, yet?

Try "method B" and see what you get.

(Okay, it's slightly cheesey to get a 'free' bodyguard unit on turn one but you can disband it as soon as the phoney heir has died off and become a normal general again and not feel that you've cheated. In the meantime, you get Haronobu as the rightful heir. It's a 'workaround' rather than a proper fix, I suppose, but that's the only choice if it is hardcoded and it certainly looks to be that way, since all the other factions are similarly affected.)