IS M2TW falling into the boring section?

[neoiq5719]

Dont get me wrong, i like this game BUT i think it got to a point in which is already boring and i´m sure for many of u too. Lot of M2TW players are eager waiting for the 1.2 patch or now for the expansion pack but in the end IS ALL THE SAME. Call it new factions, new weapons, new maps or whatever u want IS JUST GONNA BE MORE OF THE SAME.
Unless they come up with something really new for this game ( an innovation) like if u remenber the first time u played this game, i rather change the faction and play it again that spending my money on the same thing but with different name.
I think CA should move on to let´s say the war of independence in america or something like that but it would be the same story but with different characters.
In my opinion CA has to come up with something new to bring this game back to life.
What do u reckon?

[sapi]

When you break them down, every game of a specific type is the same.

Every RTS game is about moving little ants around in order to destroy your opponent's bigger ants.

Every FPS is about moving a crosshair around the screen in order to shoot someone.

Every RPG is a level-grind.

But we still play them.

Why? Because they're fun.

The new patches, the expansion; they may be along the same lines as the rest, but they'll offer the same fun.

What you are suggesting is that CA abandons a formula that works, that sells games, and switch to an unknown one. Whatever your opinion, it seems unlikely....on the surface.

That said, CA Brizzie have taken over the development of M2TW, leaving CA Britain to focus on Fast As A Shark 2: Yeah, Baby!. It could be the breath of fresh air you're hoping for.

Then again, it might not be.

As for me, I'll be happy to pick M2TW up again when the patch does arrive and play a game which I feel has already paid itself off.

[Furious Mental]

If changing the historical era to early modern does not count as something "really new" in your opinion then really what you are asking for is not for them to "bring the game back to life" but to abandon it and make something completely different.

[sapi]

Not to mention that the modern era just wouldn't work with the TW system, period.

[neoiq5719]

When you break them down, every game of a specific type is the same.

Every RTS game is about moving little ants around in order to destroy your opponent's bigger ants.

Every FPS is about moving a crosshair around the screen in order to shoot someone.

Every RPG is a level-grind.

But we still play them.

Why? Because they're fun.

The new patches, the expansion; they may be along the same lines as the rest, but they'll offer the same fun.

What you are suggesting is that CA abandons a formula that works, that sells games, and switch to an unknown one. Whatever your opinion, it seems unlikely....on the surface.

That said, CA Brizzie have taken over the development of M2TW, leaving CA Britain to focus on Fast As A Shark 2: Yeah, Baby!. It could be the breath of fresh air you're hoping for.

Then again, it might not be.

As for me, I'll be happy to pick M2TW up again when the patch does arrive and play a game which I feel has already paid itself off.

i know what your interest is but i dont share it though. Like u said each game in the end is the same and so will be the expansion pack. Hours of fun?? you can have the same by changing the faction and NOT spending your money on something that will be the same. Like i said before, originality pays off and that what M2TW needs.
NOT a new game, needs something added to it that is new and revolutionary and if u cant figure it out then u should step down.
The game is really good but i think you r just hanging on to a very thin thread and squeezing the most out of this game till eventually it will dry out.
INNOVATION is the key word here and for that u have to get your mind to it and not to come up with things that r the same.
What people should see is how many hours they spend with the game in comparison with the first time (unfair comment but true).
I play 2 or 3 turns and start yawing.
IT JUST NEEDS SOMETHING NEW AND NOT A TOTAL DIFFERENT THING I LIKE THE WAY IT IS.

[Andres]

And what innovations did you have in mind?

[sapi]

i know what your interest is but i dont share it though. Like u said each game in the end is the same and so will be the expansion pack.

fyi, I haven't played m2tw in weeks - I'm waiting for the patch just like the rest of us

Hours of fun?? you can have the same by changing the faction and NOT spending your money on something that will be the same. Like i said before, originality pays off and that what M2TW needs.

If you want originality, don't go for an expansion, go for another game.

Expansions deliver more of the same to fans who want it; that's their entire point.

NOT a new game, needs something added to it that is new and revolutionary and if u cant figure it out then u should step down.

I believe that we have already had a discussion about personal attacks

The game is really good but i think you r just hanging on to a very thin thread and squeezing the most out of this game till eventually it will dry out.

And, of course, no other game ever gets old

INNOVATION is the key word here and for that u have to get your mind to it and not to come up with things that r the same.
What people should see is how many hours they spend with the game in comparison with the first time (unfair comment but true).
I play 2 or 3 turns and start yawing.
IT JUST NEEDS SOMETHING NEW AND NOT A TOTAL DIFFERENT THING I LIKE THE WAY IT IS.

And I say it again - if you get bored of a game, you should play a different one, not the same one again.

The things that irritated you (and, judging from this forum, only you) will still be there when you reload...

[Incongruous]

Though I tend to agree with you Sapi, I still don't find the last wto games as fun as Medieval Total war. Which gave me years and years of great and exciting gaming. Perhaps the current system really reached its hieghts at M1TW? As you said hopefully the new game will give us some of that old CA innovation?

[sapi]

My point was more that everyone here brought M2TW knowing what they were getting, and that expansions exist to capitalise on that (and not in a bad way)

I don't subscribe to either the MTW > M2TW or vice versa ideals; they were both great games shaped by their times.

[Dave1984]

I think the campaign can verge on quite dull alot of the time, especially in the endgame, and this is where Glorious Achievements really came into their own in MTW and I think M2TW campaign suffers without them. It's possible to RP your faction's characters throughout to maintain the interest but again at the ned your dominance is such that you'd have to engineer something quite spectacular, such as razing half of your own cities to the ground, or somesuch, in order to give your characters that bit more life.
I think the expansion will be more of the same, of course it will, but with different campaign maps and objectives (hopefully) we should see something more immersive. I know people have complained that the British map should have been set in the dark ages but to me Medieval Britain was a fascinating place for war and intrigue and so on, so that's going to be great to play.
It would be foolish to strike out in a totally new direction, drop everything that's gone before, just to deliver something new. If they were to do that then maybe they should start a different series of games rather than annoying the hell out of the TW vets who like Medieval and Classical warfare by knocking off something flashy with lots of guns and explosions purely to satisfy gun nuts.
There is space for innovation, but I don't see the room for too much extra without going all fantastic, or arguably worse, fully RTS on us.

[Varam]

I agree that the Total War formula needs to see some changes, but I'm not quite sure what they are. My problem is that the games lack depth when you compare them to other strategy games - as enjoyable as the battles are, they lack the complexity found in most RTS games, and the campaign lacks the detail of a traditional TBS game. Coming up with ways to improve the campaign is is easy, but it's much more difficult to come up of ways to make the battle system more involved without sacrificing the things that make it fairly unique.

Actually, I think the thing the series needs most is a major AI overhaul - against a human opponent the battle system is pretty interesting, but the AI is unable to present the player with any really interesting battles.

[Ignoramus]

Immersion is the key to any historical game. The problem I find with Medieval 2, is that it just doesn't feel medieval. I don't know whether that's my problem or the game's problem, but it doesn't have the same touch as Medieval did.

I think the main area of improvement that is needed is in the campaign. The battles themselves are quite enjoyable, but even on vh/vh, I have never been challenged on the campaign map. I think that this is where the game lets itself down. Instead of having the AI being aggressive and trying to give you a real run for your money, they only launch short offensives, which I never have any difficulty in repulsing.

[TevashSzat]

I personally don't think M2TW is necessarily that boring to me now, but it doesn't give me the same feel that I had while playing RTW. Even the summer before M2TW came out, I can still sometimes start a new campaign in RTW and spend alot of time on it without the BI or Alexander expansion. M2TW just doesn't give me that same feel again.

[Puzz3D]

Perhaps the current system really reached its hieghts at M1TW?

The battle engine definitely reached its peak in MTW/VI v2.01.

[Callahan9119]

i'm playing civ4 now, as much as i wanna keep liking TW games it just cant hold my attention anymore, no matter what the fanboys say the game is barely changed in 7 years, besides obvious graphical improvement

the ai still sucks, the diplomacy sucks etc and EVERY new version they release has SO many bugs and flaws that fans are always waiting on a patch before the game even begins to play the way it should

the only thing i kinda like anymore is the actual battles, the campaign is a boring, flawed, tedious and uninspired affair

i just finished a campaign of rome a little bit ago and it was just mind numbing towards the end, vannilla medival2 is just slightly more entertaining...but only of you use probfixers

mods here always seem way to quick to jump to CA's defense

[TinCow]

We don't jump to CA's defense, we enforce the Org's policy of not allowing CA Bashing. If you say something constructive about the problems with the TW games or CA, that is acceptable. However, simply insulting the game and/or CA without meaningful discussion is not allowed. You can always post your CA Bashing at the .com if you simply cannot live without it. If you have a problem with the Org's policies you can take it up in the Watchtower.

[ASPER THE GREAT]

I love this forum & all total war games, yea, yea, yea, every game gets boring just like "Sapi" said. PLAY a different game HPsims, Age of Empires, HoI, EUIII, IP Glory, ect... for a few days then go back and see what you liked about MTW2 (ants, ants, oh the pretty little ants) That said I have been want to get this off my chest for a while now, here goes thats how much you get .

1. Something is missing What? (NOT) nothing is missing CA has just added some new twist and tweaked some old ones, good or (mostly) bad.

2. Along the lines of tweaks & twists CA/Sega blew it big time, "SORRY" Capt. Fish Pants & the rest of the crew but Pike Fix, 2 Hand, Shield bug, Calvary charge, & don't chase routers, ect... the list is huge with a major impact on game play!

3. Sure MOD it, hack the files & type this or that, its coming in the patch, what ever should come on the disc I bought.

4. I will buy the expansion just like always but it sounds a lot like Age of Empires III, it's around here some where?

5. New wave, psycho card $400 upgrade your computer???

6. All war games are great, no matter what era is your preference & yes make NAPPY TW, CIVIL WAR TW, & any other TW game you can, now I'm no computer programmer or graphics guy but we already have canons & guns & the AI (in all games is pretty lame) so lets Rock-N-Roll and get the show on the road.

7. DISCLAIMER sorry if I have offended any one or have been out of line but when your out conquering the world cussing like a pig, rape & pillage the village, $$$$, micro manage, war is hell, did you see that, ect... it all just goes to your head I just love these guys... LATER.

[Jambo]

I don't see much mindless CA bashing in this thread to be honest...

Anyway, like Puzz3D said, there's not really been much progress on the battle AI or battle engine side of things since MTw. If anything there's been a regression and that's particularly sad given we're now quite a few years forward in time from when MTw was released.

I have a strong sense of deja-vu with M2Tw in relation to Rome. Many of the good fixes, etc, they incorporated into BI and the latter Rome patches are inexplicably absent from the initial release of M2...! Like Rome, we've had the initial euphoric post-release period, but as that wow-factor diminishes and the glut of major bugs and problems are systematically uncovered, the immersion is lost and the game ceases to entice me to play. In fact I haven't played M2Tw since Xmas....

Sure, there's a lot to admire about M2Tw but I actually found I got more enjoyment out of trying to mod/fix the game myself than I have from actually playing it. When I do play I tend to play through all battles and the attacking siege AI is enough to reduce a grown man to tears...

[repman]

MTW II is a shallow medieval hull on a Rome engine and has no roleplay elements as

- dynasties, faction heir choose
- heraldic system
- career systems
- dynamic events
- greater importance of ressources on techtree
- different achievements than conquering some provinces
- broken campaign AI
- annyoing battle AI
- ....

so it's just boring crashing your enemies ....

If you want them you need to play mods as AD or DLV.
Maybe the Addon has some more, but i can see new units and factions and nothing else....

repman

[neoiq5719]

fyi, I haven't played m2tw in weeks - I'm waiting for the patch just like the rest of us

If you want originality, don't go for an expansion, go for another game.

Expansions deliver more of the same to fans who want it; that's their entire point.


I believe that we have already had a discussion about personal attacks

And, of course, no other game ever gets old


And I say it again - if you get bored of a game, you should play a different one, not the same one again.

The things that irritated you (and, judging from this forum, only you) will still be there when you reload...

I believe that we have already had a discussion about personal attacks

What???????? dont be a baby man because if i went off on u then u´ll know what a personal attack is like ok?. What r we here for? just to tell u how wonderful the game is and how much we love the bugs and all the screw-ups you keep on having in every edition?.

And I say it again - if you get bored of a game, you should play a different one, not the same one again.

NOW this sentence is coming from a moderator. WAY TO GO MAN.
I think u r losing your perpective and u take any negative comment about the game like a personal charge. Like I said, i like the game and i wouldnt like to see myself throwing this good game in a drawer just because some guys dont wanna put some elbow grease into it and implement some new and cool things that would make me pick it up again.
INstead let´s see if they can make some more money with the same dull thing.

[TinCow]

What???????? dont be a baby man because if i went off on u then u´ll know what a personal attack is like ok?. What r we here for? just to tell u how wonderful the game is and how much we love the bugs and all the screw-ups you keep on having in every edition?.

This is a blatant personal attack on a moderator. You were warned.

Thread locked.