An independent Sweboz overview

[JeffBag]

Displayed stats aren't everything; for more detailed information look at the Germanic unit sheet in the trading card thread. As you can see from there, clubmen have 14% chance of killing with an AP attack, while Frameharjoz only have 12.5% chance of killing, and without AP. Taking this into consideration, clubmen still suck badly with only an armor value of 1, and since almost every single unit in Germania and Gaul are pretty much unarmoured, their main use is quite redundant. Maybe you can bring just one unit per stack just to flank and kill generals, until you can get Merjoz.

[ElectricEel]

I agree, the Klumbokarlaz are inferior to the spearmen until later in the game, when you are fighting factions with heavily armoured units, such as the Romans. Even then, they'll suffer far worse from missile fire, do not get bonuses against cavalry, and will not have access to the tighter formation of the spearmen. I'd like to see them made two or three hundred mnai (that is the unit of money used in EB, right?) cheaper to recruit than they are now - maybe then they'd get some use.

Another thing - the Scandinavian Warband is very expensive, considering its limited effectiveness. I understand that being able to recruit them from the 1st MIC level partly justifies their cost, but considering they are still weaker than the significantly cheaper Germanic Spearmen, I don't see why I would ever recruit them expect in very desperate circumistances.

EDIT: Turns out that the Scandinavians (and the Chaucii warband) have the 'Fast Moving' attribute. I guess they could be useful for chasing routers before you have cavalry, but I'm not sure that justifies their cost.

[Mightypeon]

I am currently advacning quite nice.
I have (in my new game) conquered an amount of roughly 19 provinces.
However, taking rebel Patavium brought me to war with roma, which is quite nasty Considering I need about 6 turns to get Batacori or Spearman reeinforcements.


My field army is composed of two generals units, some Gaullish Mercs, 2 Gaulish Cavalry mercs (Am I just stupid or how do I build German Light Cav?) and some 8 Celtish (non merc) Slingers.


I also discovered that German Skrimishers(Swainoz) are propably amongst the best in the game, hiding, fast moving, stats nearly equal to a Spearman and, as far as I get it, more ammo.
I am beginning to play around with them a bit more, so far, they seem to be the best unit in the German roster. In addition, they have much slightler losses then Framehorjaz thanks to their ability of shooting stuff they dont want to tackle.

[ElectricEel]

One thing that occurred to me - according to game mechanics discussions I've read, units with spears get a -4 penalty to attack against infantry (and +4 against cavalry). That might make the spearmen a bit weaker than they appear. I probably should test this at some point.

(Am I just stupid or how do I build German Light Cav?)

I think you'll need a level 4 MIC. They'll be the only cavalry unit you can recruit from your home terrorities (you might be able to recruit heavier cavalry in e.g. Gaul, but I've read Sweboz recruitment is a bit barren outside their home areas - but I guess you can rely on mercanaries).

The skirmishers do look pretty good. I'm in the progress of switching to using Cheruscii Warbands as my line units in my current campaign, but I might also add some of those skirmishers to my armies.

[ElectricEel]

Okay, I've tested the club warriors vs. germanic spears matchup in custom battles, and the spears have a very clear advantage. The spears suffer 20%-50% casualties, depending on the timing of the javelin volleys, and rout the clubs after inflicting 85%-90% casualties. This invalidates the "spears get a penalty against infantry, so the matchup is not as unfair as it seems" theory.

[Watchman]

The "spear" bonuses/penalties only apply if the unit has been given the appropriate weapon attribute in the EDU. In EB no spear unit that uses only spears for melee has been given it (instead they get verying degrees of anti-cavalry bonuses in the "mount_effect" line); units with the phalanx formation need it for their primary weapon so the formation works, and some of the "double armed" spear/sword units (Celtic and maybe Sweboz heavies, some Hellenic guard units mainly) have it for their spears.

Far as I can tell the club dudes are intented as "cheap and cheerful" mass infantry for dealing with the heavily armoured troops many of the Sweboz' neighbours start getting later on, and as such don't have too much use against most Eleutheroi armies. Assorted axemen, nevermind those scary Wodanawulfaz, are a higher-quality version of the same theme.

The Ridonharjoz kinda suffer from the fact about everyone and their dog near the Sweboz starting regions has a spear and is thus pretty good against cavalry, and their overhand cavalry spears may still have some statting issues (there's still an across-the-board consistency problem with these in the EDU). However, they should do well enough on flank and rear charges and as router-chasers, and ought to be able to cream the Celtic Leuce Epos types in a straight fight due to their higher base combat skills (the latter are of the underhand cav spear type with very low base attack, high delay, high charge and AP - not a very good combination against high-skill low-armour enemies like the Sweboz obviously).

[ElectricEel]

Thanks for the clarification on the spear penalties.

Far as I can tell the club dudes are intented as "cheap and cheerful" mass infantry for dealing with the heavily armoured troops many of the Sweboz' neighbours start getting later on, and as such don't have too much use against most Eleutheroi armies.

I figured that was their role. Still, it probably would not hurt to reduce their cost, considering that as they are now, they are pretty much redundant in the early game, and do have significant weaknesses compared to other units later on when they become useful. Also, considering that they use poorer-quality equipment than other units that have the same level of availability, it would be logical (though they do have a lower upkeep cost already).

A few minor problems I've noticed about the Sweboz units:
-The shirtless (foreign-employed) varieties of germanic spears put their shirts back on when you zoom out enough that they switch to a sprite instead of a model.
-There's some inconsistency in which units can benefit from weapon upgrades, and which cannot. Levy spears have the 'light' weapon type, which means they can upgrade, but the javelin-chucking varieties of spearmen have the 'missile' weapon type, which is not upgraded by a blacksmith.