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  1. #1
    Master of Few Words Senior Member KukriKhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: A picture of how the UK has changed.

    Quote Originally Posted by doc_bean
    I blame the lawyers
    I blame the Insurance industry. They're the risk-averse culprits in affairs like these. So-called safety rules and reg's get written with their actuarial tables in mind.

    IF fireman Brown had drowned while attempting the rescue, the bereaved Mrs. Brown could conceivably sue, not the victim, but the department/gov't for failing to insure her husband's safety. To counter that risk, they write "must have a life-jacket, and a rope, and a pole, and authorization from HQ" before attempting to do his job; then badda-boom-badda-bing: Brown took his own life by failing to observe written reg's, = 0 compensation for the widow.

    Sucks.
    Last edited by KukriKhan; 04-05-2007 at 14:18.
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  2. #2
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: A picture of how the UK has changed.

    In our hospital there are of course fire extinguishers. We were given a talk about the different types and how to use them. We were then instructed never to do so... Obviously otherwise if we were hurt in a fire we might sue the hospital.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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  3. #3
    Liar and Trickster Senior Member Andres's Avatar
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    Default Re: A picture of how the UK has changed.

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

    I hope you realise that the Org can not be held responsible for any possible headaches, headinjuries or any other fysical or psychological harm whatsoever caused by the use of that particular smiley...

    Anyway, I'm glad to see common sense still exists here. Fancy that: the backroom as a lonely bastion of common sense.
    Last edited by Andres; 04-05-2007 at 14:41.
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    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: A picture of how the UK has changed.

    Though I do not agree in this case that the fireman deserves to be investigated into how he saved the woman - providing of course that all information has been revealed, I do suspect the Times a lot of the time... - the principle which is being exercised here is not necessarily a bad one.

    I think that the principle of investigating how the police, doctors or fireman do their job and even save lives, especially in cases such as this is not a bad one. For instance I do not think that it would be particularily clever if every fireman jumped into save that woman if is was clear that the liklihood result was that they would all die. The only way to make situations safer for all is to investigate these instances. It may well have been easier to try and rescue the woman from ashore, for instance, or for the fireman to get back up, just because what he did worked, it does not mean that it will a) always work or b) be the best thing to do.

    I guess I don't have the terrible aghast first thought all you other guys and gals seem to have when thinking of 'pen pushers with clipboards'. Normally, after all, they are only attempting to make things better and funnily enough they normally do.
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  5. #5
    Liar and Trickster Senior Member Andres's Avatar
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    Default Re: A picture of how the UK has changed.

    I'm wondering what safety regulations the employer was talking about.

    If it is like "must have a life-jacket, and a rope, and a pole, and authorization from HQ", those safety regulations would make it impossible to actually safe lifes in cases of emergency and in that case one can ask himself the question if it's not better to just get rid of the whole police force, fire squads and the like.

    Overregulation might result in absurd inefficiency to a degree where the people involved can't do the jobs they are supposed to do anymore.

    Also, it's disturbing to see how this man who saved a young woman's life gets a reprimande instead of a medal or at least a pat on the back.
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  6. #6
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Re: A picture of how the UK has changed.

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    Though I do not agree in this case that the fireman deserves to be investigated into how he saved the woman - providing of course that all information has been revealed, I do suspect the Times a lot of the time... - the principle which is being exercised here is not necessarily a bad one.

    I think that the principle of investigating how the police, doctors or fireman do their job and even save lives, especially in cases such as this is not a bad one. For instance I do not think that it would be particularly clever if every fireman jumped into save that woman if is was clear that the likelihood result was that they would all die. The only way to make situations safer for all is to investigate these instances. It may well have been easier to try and rescue the woman from ashore, for instance, or for the fireman to get back up, just because what he did worked, it does not mean that it will a) always work or b) be the best thing to do.

    I guess I don't have the terrible aghast first thought all you other guys and gals seem to have when thinking of 'pen pushers with clipboards'. Normally, after all, they are only attempting to make things better and funnily enough they normally do.
    ROFLMAO!!!

    Oh, there are masses of jobs in the NHS just waiting for you!!!

    Us Doctors are crying out for more regulation for non-clinically trained people to tell us how to do our jobs! Only last week I have had to submit my audit request to the audit co-ordinator. It is incidentally a national audit so plenty of clip boards are already poised.

    After a week the signature by the audit co-ordinator hasn't been received so nothing has inf act happened. I had 4 weeks to do it...

    What the morons off the front line rarely grasp is that doctors, police and firemen have in many cases seconds to make life or death decisions. We don't have time for the People's Book Of Bureaucracy to see what someone thought at a meeting was the best thing to do.

    Normally make things better? Kept up to date with the farce with Doctor's jobs?

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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  7. #7
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: A picture of how the UK has changed.

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    Though I do not agree in this case that the fireman deserves to be investigated into how he saved the woman - providing of course that all information has been revealed, I do suspect the Times a lot of the time... - the principle which is being exercised here is not necessarily a bad one.

    I think that the principle of investigating how the police, doctors or fireman do their job and even save lives, especially in cases such as this is not a bad one. For instance I do not think that it would be particularily clever if every fireman jumped into save that woman if is was clear that the liklihood result was that they would all die. The only way to make situations safer for all is to investigate these instances. It may well have been easier to try and rescue the woman from ashore, for instance, or for the fireman to get back up, just because what he did worked, it does not mean that it will a) always work or b) be the best thing to do.

    I guess I don't have the terrible aghast first thought all you other guys and gals seem to have when thinking of 'pen pushers with clipboards'. Normally, after all, they are only attempting to make things better and funnily enough they normally do.
    Well here's a thought:

    He saved her life, without any harm to himself, a thirty second investigation would tell me he did the right thing, a thirty year one the same.

    I'm sorry but the idea you need to investigate when things go right is just silly. When attempting to save someone's life you're aiming for fast, not clever. That fireman was clearly able to swim in that water. What you are suggesting is that we should have a set of "one size fits all" rules.

    Life isn't like that.

    Besides which it is the job of a fireman to risk his life.
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  8. #8
    Hope guides me Senior Member Hosakawa Tito's Avatar
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    Default Re: A picture of how the UK has changed.

    "So that others may live" is the motto for the US Coast Guard's rescue swimmers. It is also a creed for many in law enforcement, fire protection, military, etc... From what I read of this man's character, demonstrated by his selfless act, I'm sure he has the courage of his convictions, and will take on this bureaucratic department stupidity with no regrets for his actions. The media, and family of the rescued, should excoriate the department publicly for any disciplinary action taken against such a heroic act. Give them enough bad PR, and they'll back down.

    As a rescuer, securing ones own safety is part of the procedure. However, life doesn't always go by the book. Sometimes one must act now irregardless of the danger, and we should be thankful that there are people willing to do so.
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  9. #9
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: A picture of how the UK has changed.

    Amen.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

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  10. #10
    Humbled Father Member Duke of Gloucester's Avatar
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    Default Re: A picture of how the UK has changed.

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    Though I do not agree in this case that the fireman deserves to be investigated into how he saved the woman - providing of course that all information has been revealed, I do suspect the Times a lot of the time... - the principle which is being exercised here is not necessarily a bad one.
    Agreed about the Times JAG. If you read the article carefully and look at the quotes rather than the journalistic interpretation you will see that the Mr Brown did not act alone - he was lowered in to the water on a rope that broke - and that the incident is being investigated. The senior officer on the scene might be disciplined for approving a procedure that put Mr Brown at risk. Mr Brown himself is clearly a hero and he should have been congratulated. Others may have made mistakes at the scene and it is right that this being investigated. The Times says he might face discipline, but the quotes from the Fire Brigade spokesman say something subtlely different and much less newsworthy.
    We all learn from experience. Unfortunately we don't all learn as much as we should.

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