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  1. #1
    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default And this is scary

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/6524495.stm

    "Talking" CCTV cameras that tell off people dropping litter or committing anti-social behaviour are to be extended to 20 areas across England.
    I don't know about most, but the thought of talking CCTV cameras ordering people to do things, ordered by faceless people who can see everywhere you go and do, but cannot be talked to themselves, is possibly the most police state - type action taken by this government. Who is behind the cameras ordering us to do things, who has given them the power and why should they tell me to do things? I have the right aslong as I am not hurting others to do exactly what I want to do and I do not want some big brother - type faceless mass telling me otherwise.

    It is cases such as this, which are so important in keeping civil liberties, which make the Daily Mail screaming about baa baa black sheep so ridiculous and so stupid on the Daily Mail's part. Because of their insessant screaming about a 'police state' and 'politically correct', real and dangerous infringes on our liberties are able to be brought in. That is as shameful as the proposal in itself.

    Now even if these talking CCTV cameras stop some forms of anti-social behaviour like loud music, gangs shouting and pushing their weight about etc, do we really think that this is either the right way to deal with this or that it will do anything other that breed resentment and push the activities to areas where there are not these cameras? Does this mean we need cameras like these everywhere, and where does it end? Do we end police on the street and rely on talking CCTV cameras which can zap you if you disobey? This is big brother in reality and the fact it has not garnered significant news time is worrying.

    And we all know that the only way to deal with anti-social behaviour and to fix it, is not by these overbearing authoritarian measures, but by sorting out the root causes of the behaviour in the first place.
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  2. #2
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: And this is scary

    Well it's taken you some time to catch up mate, but hey, better late than never. I've been saying for years how draconian this government is. The only saving grace is that the government are such incompetent nincompoops that couldn't run a whelk stall, never mind an administration.

    The faster we dump these idiots the better. Gordon for PM, just to finish the bastards off for another two decades.

    Well done JAG you've turned the first corner.

    Edit:for spelling
    Last edited by InsaneApache; 04-05-2007 at 17:46.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: And this is scary

    Hmmm. I appear to agree with you.

    A question: are you opposed to omnipresent CCTV camera's that don't talk to people?

    And we all know that the only way to deal with anti-social behaviour and to fix it, is not by these overbearing authoritarian measures, but by sorting out the root causes of the behaviour in the first place.
    I think the 'root cause' of littering might just be...laziness.

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  4. #4
    RIP Tosa, my trolling end now Senior Member Devastatin Dave's Avatar
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    Default Re: And this is scary

    Wow, its good to see you JAG!!

    How's out little Che doing?
    RIP Tosa

  5. #5
    A very, very Senior Member Adrian II's Avatar
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    Default Re: And this is scary

    Heh, the JAG'ster is back...

    Good rant, bro'
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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: And this is scary

    Any solutions to the problems that they're trying to prevent? Homeopathy? Ear massage? Classes to try to group hug these cheeky little scamps with their high spirits until they don't smash property for laughs? I know it's not their fault, so just tell me who to blame - please!!!

    I feel we need Trotsky back. He knew how to bring law and order to the masses.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: And this is scary

    I was going to post something very similar Rory, but then I thought I'd leave it for someone else.

    As an ex-paper pusher I can tell you this. I had a budget of £350, 000 pa to run the establishment I was the manager of, (well it was 20 odd years ago) and over 75% of it went on admin! Sound familiar?
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

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    Medical Welshman in London. Senior Member Big King Sanctaphrax's Avatar
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    Default Re: And this is scary

    I have the right aslong as I am not hurting others to do exactly what I want to do and I do not want some big brother - type faceless mass telling me otherwise.
    I'm generally not in favour of these cameras as I imagine it will cost a huge amount and no-one will listen to them anyway, but this statement seems somewhat erroneous. You're right, you do have the right to do what you want as long as it's not hurting others, but
    dropping litter or committing anti-social behaviour
    don't seem to fall under that particular umbrella.
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  9. #9
    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
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    Default Re: And this is scary

    Quote Originally Posted by Big King Sanctaphrax
    I'm generally not in favour of these cameras as I imagine it will cost a huge amount and no-one will listen to them anyway, but this statement seems somewhat erroneous. You're right, you do have the right to do what you want as long as it's not hurting others, but don't seem to fall under that particular umbrella.
    Doesn't make it less of an police state.

    Makes a difference on the oppressive scale though.


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    Now you got me curious.

    Think were I live and 15+ years back and you might get my curiousity
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  10. #10
    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Re: And this is scary

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
    Any solutions to the problems that they're trying to prevent? Homeopathy? Ear massage? Classes to try to group hug these cheeky little scamps with their high spirits until they don't smash property for laughs? I know it's not their fault, so just tell me who to blame - please!!!

    I feel we need Trotsky back. He knew how to bring law and order to the masses.
    I have an alternative solution.

    Compulsory national service from 16 to 20 - not including military service, as a conscript army is worse than useless, but certainly including marching the unrepentant up and down hills in the rain for long periods of time. For the more constructive, lots of socially supportive jobs in the community - like litter picking. There would be options to join the regular armed services in the same manner as now (i.e. as professionals) or the nursing profession and suchlike. Training in literacy, numeracy and other essential skills would be important, and hard working people could earn the right to apprentice positions alongside the community work. University would not be an option until completion and satisfactory discharge.

    It's about time more young people learned about societal responsibilities. There should be a parallel option for older people who haven't as yet got the message, focussed through the courts and benefit system.

    Surveillance of the general citizenry is useless and dangerous for democracy. It creates a society of secrecy, mistrust and paranoia, rather than one of community and shared responsibilities.
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  11. #11
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: And this is scary

    I think that is an excellent plan. I wuold still put it under the control of the Armed Forces though, and allow those that want to choose a career in the armed forces to do so ASAP. As such it would be as pleasant or as miserable as the persons make it.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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  12. #12
    Member Member KafirChobee's Avatar
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    Default Re: And this is scary

    Talking spy cameras are going to get "the bird" shown to them more often than a positive response - like picking up a disgarded candy wrapper.

    The fear of terrorist activity seems (for the moment) to outweigh the majority of peoples' fear of the decline in their freedoms. Expect more evasive policies into the lives of democratic citizenry - and expect the majority of them to accept it as a necessity. After all, if one is doing nothing wrong - what do they have to hide? Beside their freedom to privacy - and that has always been a myth anyway.
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  13. #13
    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default Re: And this is scary

    Silly people. A police state is a SAFE state.

  14. #14
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: And this is scary

    And as most acts do not have a definite effect on the liberties of others, but have a probability of doing so makes this far from clear cut, however the statement is written.

    I fail to see how this shows my example is "wrong". Transponders on private planes infringes the rights of those on board whilst the lack of one does not cause the infringement of the rights of others.

    And this of course neglects where the right of one's free speech falls foul of others not wanting to hear / see evidence of this.

    That your country can have a war to prevent states leaving the Union shows how often this is referred to.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
    Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
    "If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
    If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill

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