And this is scary

[Ironside]

I'm generally not in favour of these cameras as I imagine it will cost a huge amount and no-one will listen to them anyway, but this statement seems somewhat erroneous. You're right, you do have the right to do what you want as long as it's not hurting others, but don't seem to fall under that particular umbrella.

Doesn't make it less of an police state.

Makes a difference on the oppressive scale though.

as a conscript army is worse than useless

Now you got me curious.

Think were I live and 15+ years back and you might get my curiousity

[Duke of Gloucester]

BG has a professional soldier's disdain for "amateur" conscripts. It seems to be based on common sense. At the moment the British Army can select the best from the applicants who want to join. Conscription means you have to take almost everyone and many of them will be hostile and others will be useless. The fighting efficiency of the armed services would be diluted. Add to this the fact that the army would be much bigger so they would be nothing like as well equipped and you have a strong argument against military conscription.

However the history of the 20th century suggests that conscript armies are far from "worse than useless." After all they won two world wars.

Most young people are sensible and responsible. They do not need four years of compulsory bossing around and quasi military treatment to make them useful members of society. In fact this is more oppressive than survelance cameras. Some teenagers are troubled (and hence troublesome) but faux sergeant majors calling them horrible little men (or women) and forcing them to do jobs that many adults believe to be demeaning will not make them better - probably the reverse. You also have the severe fiscal difficulties with the scheme. The conscripts would need to be paid, people already carrying out these roles would be redundant. Many 18 to 20-year-olds are economically active and their contribution would to the economy would be lost.

There is a problem with over indulgence in alcohol, but the solution to this lies in more careful planning of the nature and position of licensed premises. If you think that it is only people between 16 and 20 who drop litter then you need to open your eyes next time you are out. The best way to reduce litter is to cut down on the amount of packaging associated with purchases.

Yes, cameras bossing you around is a terrible idea (and I hope KC is right about people's reaction to this) but compulsory community service for four years is much worse. If you really want to see civil disobedience try telling me that my children have to waste four years of their lives to make them useful members of society rather than allowing them to get on with their education and training.

[Cataphract_Of_The_City]

It is ironic how George Orwell was writing specifically about England (1984/Animal Farm) and now England is hell bent on proving him right.

[_Martyr_]

I agree that a certain amount of National Service could be a good idea. I disagree however about the proposed length, and the content. A year is long enough, as far as I know that is what Germany has. There, an entrant must chose between either a Military service (boot camp), or a Civil service (old folks homes, hospitals, youth worker), unless they have some medical excuse. IMO this should be compulsory for ALL youths, male, female, well educated and poorly educated. I know many guys my age from very privileged backgrounds who would have benefited from a scheme like this enormously. Im about the least nationalistic person you're likely to meet, but I do think that it would have a very positive effect on society through the combined individual improvements it would have on the youth, and the actual good works that would come about through their direct involvement (Hospitals, old folks homes etc...).

[Duke of Gloucester]

Of course we already force children to go to school for 11 years (in the UK). If this community service is such a good idea then it should be done during that time rather than adding another year of compulsion. In my experience young people, when given the opportunity, fall over themselves to get involved especially when the activities involve working helping people. (They are not so keen to pick up litter or clear weeds from parks). Give these activities GCSE equivalent points and all schools will want to join in.

If you are talking about military service as the solution, just think about the proplem first: drinking and fighting. Soldiers never do either, of course.

[Lord Winter]

*thanks the founders for having the wisdom of including the fourth addmendment.*

what do they have to hide?

If they're not doing anything wrong of course they should be okay with it. I mean who wouldn't want a camera watching ever single waking hour of your life, from the harmless to the most embaracing. For that matter these cameras are great idea for national security too. Just think of how many "terrorist" we could catch. While were at it why don't we also to use it to help find those giving comfort to the terrorist by spewing these lies that disgrace our troops on the ground. Any sense of disagreement with the government should be considered an crime. Great now we can fainilly stop this spread of lies about the possiable failings of our perfect government.
[/sarcasm]

On a more serious note, let us consult the words of Benjamen Franklin:
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

[rory_20_uk]

So, Franklin was agianst all laws then? Every law cedes some liberty.

Cameras pointing at public areas isn not intruding into every area of people's life. People can choose not to go into the areas, and therefore not get recorded. Of course, you might prefer the added safety of no cameras on buses as this is of course such a personal and embarassing activity to be undertaking.

In fact, thinking about it, Air traffic Control records the position and height of every plane! What an intrusion! Best scrap it - after all we all now know Franklin's quote.