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  1. #1

    Default Re: Saka AAR(s), Research, or something

    Plan B: Take and improve Sulek to create a depot. Chighu is too poor with only livestock as a resource. Sulek has iron, copper, precious metals, more livestock than Chighu, stone quarries, timber, clothes & dyes, and a wonder. And it's on the silk road. It also has a larger population. It's also better positioned to expand into Baktria, but that works both ways. The garrison is not horse archers, which means lower losses, but with this strategy that's not as important. The towns to the west in thesteppes are all steppes cultures, and all cavalry, which means high losses. And the rewards are miniscule. At some point they will have to be sacked, but they aren't worth developing unless there is a reason to use them to recruit (which there may be later.)
    Gava Saka does have four copper deposits, I see. It might pay to take that too. But it's cavalry, so it will probably cost more to conquer.

    First steps, then, will be to consolidate these scattered family members and disband some units (especially the Early Saka Nobles) to avoid large red ink. Instead of building units, the starting mnai can go to building some things in Chighu to boost income as much as possible. Or to improve future recruiting there. Also, the diplomat will head out to do the usual, make peace for now, sell maps, make alliances where they make sense. Everything east of the Caspian and Red Sea are the victory targets, so that's a consideration in alliances.

    Also, need to move the one spy up to report on Sulek, though we'll starve that garrison into the open. I prefer fighting my cav outside in most situations. No room to charge or skirmish in the streets. After scouting Sulek, the spy will be my early warning system for Baktrian incursions. Won't be able to afford towers for some time.

    For the moment I won't be hitting Eleutheroi outside my own lands or target lands. Better to leave them as buffers for the Baktrians and Parthians.

    Oxyboakes, the family member 2 seasons out from Sulek, by far the closest, can start pestering them. He has one horse archer unit with him. It will take about two years just to get everyone to Sulek. It's a shame to disband these experienced troops, but I can recuit fresh ones cheaper than the support I'd pay to get the others home.

    All the Ksava Saka Rauka family have the "Lives on the move" trait. That hurts them as governors, but helps them as raiders. It gives them +20% movement, 10% bonus when looting, +1 command attacking and +2 leading cavalry, but -1 to farming output and -10% to taxes and trade. I suspect I'll want to marry some granddaughters to men from other families/cultures to find some governors.

    After the above steps, the bleeding is about 1500 mnai per turn. Sulek has no walls either, and takes 4 turns to starve. But I expect a sortie since the besieging force is one family member and one horse archer unit. The faction leader and his three HA units are still a year away, if not more due to exhaustion. The faction heir is another season or two behind. Distances are by themselves challenging.

    But they also are a defensive buffer.



    272 BC, late summer:

    My King,

    As we expected the Sulekites are not pleased with our presence in their pastures. They have come forth to greet us with weapons in hand. As you ordered, we extracted a tribute in blood before retreating. Then when they carried off their dead and returned to their loving sheep, we returned. We will continue with our play until you arrive. Do not tarry, My King, for I fear we may run short of game for your hunt.

    By my scribe's hand, this day outside Sulek,

    Oxyboakes


    Oxy is an optimist. The garrison has too many archers to do this without taking casualties. And the one cav unit is, of course, equipped with bows too. I took out 4 times what I lost, but too many of the losses were my horse archers to sustain it. So just have to be patient while the FL rides in. The bait and scoot tactic works best when you have both mobility and range on the poor target. In this case, I have neither at least until the cavalry is wiped out, and it's not a wimp unit. I mostly chewed up archers with my family bodyguard. But this garrison is a lot more managable than the ones in the steppes to the west! Those are almost pure cavalry, and archers to boot.

    Morte66: Thanks for the comments. I may have to resort to the cheat codes to figure out what's what with governments. I'm not even at the stage of wondering about units... yet.

    Sulek doesn't even have a wall. The problem is just being outnumbered 4:1 at the moment. And they are decent units. I do know the siege tricks for horse archer armies. But I don't know these units well yet. The basic Sarmatian Horse Archers are lower on ammo than I'm used to and more vulnerable to return fire. And the foot archers are tougher than the plain RTW ones by quite a bit. Despite repeated overruns with the impressive bodyguards, I didn't rout a single unit of them. I did cause a lot of casualties though. I suspect the unit sizes are part of the issue.

    As far as the nomad play goes, without hordes we will always need a stable base. Otherwise the risk is the loss of the last settlement before the next one is taken and end-of-game. But it can be simulated to a degree with a city or two as a permanent base. It's nice to not have to hold regions (aside from a base).
    Last edited by vonsch; 04-06-2007 at 00:22.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Saka AAR(s), Research, or something


    271 BC, spring:

    Dearest Odatis,

    I fear I am getting old for this. I have arrived at Sulek and joined up with Oxyboakes. I am exhausted! It's small consolation that the riders and horses are also. We await Aryandes who follows, so will have some time to recover.

    I hear from the master of the purse that we are not going into debt quite as fast of late. Perhaps the wealth of Sulek can return a smile to his face. While I know little of this merchanting and trade, I know tis nice to be able to purchase a fine new stud or mare. There is a fine market here and the horses, of which we have seen but few thus far, are reputed to be fine and strong. A scout says there is also a fine hunting ground to the north. Perhaps, when we are recovered, we will slip away for a bit of hunting there.

    What news from the west? Did Shafar secure an alliance with the Baktrians? Oh, to seduce them away from the Seleukieans! But, in any event, any such alliance would be a mere convenience. They stand astride our path west.

    We expect to ride into Sulek late summer. I shall send for you then.

    Send me news of the new colts when you hear!

    Sapalbizes




    THIS is not good. I hope they don't come east to Sulek. I don't see how I can beat that with what I have and with my ever-more-negative balance. If they do move on Sulek, it may be that Saka needs to keep all the starting troops and hire more, and go more negative, before things settle down a bit.

    They are, for the moment, just blocking the pass. I can live with that.



    271 BC, fall:

    My King,

    I have concluded talks with the Parthians. They have agreed to pay a small sum of mnai for peace, for trade rights, and for some scratchings on a skin I convinced them was a map of the east. It's a mere 300 mnai total, but it's mnai! They appear rather poor, in fact. I brought up the subject of an alliance, but they would not discuss it. More fools they.

    I shall continue on southwestward from Kiat. Perhaps I can secure an additional sum from the Seleukeians, though they seem to hold us in less than high esteem.

    I received word that you are yet camped outside Sulek, but expect to be camped inside before winter is over. May Urmaysde shine upon you! May Druvaspa ride at your side!

    Ever in your service,

    Shafar



    Commentary: Sulek has fallen to me at a cost of about 30 (more) horse archers. That leaves me 7500 mnai in the red with, after disbanding the foot archer unit that was garrisoning Chighu, about 80 mnai net income. As a test I deleted the Migration, and am allowed to build a migration now. So it's something I can use, presumably government or a governmental "structure," but the wording in the text changed from Sarmatian to Saka. So I don't know if I have to use my own or can use "thiers." And I am about 10000 mani from finding out. I think I will restore the old one and wait to test when I have the mnai.

    I hope to earn that flogging maps. I don't see any other settlement that I can grab, at the moment, but my spy might find a Baktrian that's undergarrisoned if I want to start a war. But that's two years of travel since my shortcut is blocked by that stack of Eleutheroi that I can't beat with what I have (I don't think... can't catch the darned HA with my bodyguard). So best plan is probably flogging maps and patience. And praying that no rebels decide either town is inviting. Oh, negative population growth in Sulek. Hmm. Not good. Need more income to hold even. Chighu is growing a little, and there's another building queued that may help a bit more there. Not sure what its net effect will be on growth.

    What I need is a husband for my granddaughter that can learn to be a decent governor! *Prays to Ssandramata*

    Aha! Restoring the Migration put Sulek back at zero growth (instead of -1%). So I can gain some ground while flogging trade agreements and maps.

    Caught in a bit of a Catch-22. I might be able to take another Eleutheroi town if I didn't have to keep a garrison in Sulek. But that bandit stack, which I can't whip is creating unrest which forces me to keep a larger garrison. So I wait, and pray.



    270BC, summer:

    My King,

    I have met with the Seleukids. While they wished peace and trade, they would pay no tributes, nor even a mild bribe. Alliance was not a subject to broach. For all their size, they pled poverty. Perhaps their wars aflict their purse as much as their enemies. Still, their cities are reupted to be large and surely they have much wealth. Perhaps we should extract our due tribute directly.

    I travel on. I had hoped to send a modest amount of mnai to aid you, but perhaps after meeting with the next 'client.' It may be spring before that takes place. It is difficult to cross these passes in the winter.

    As always, your servant.

    Shafar
    Last edited by vonsch; 04-06-2007 at 09:05.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Saka AAR(s), Research, or something

    265 BC, spring:

    After years of little success with collecting tributes in the west, and more grandsons to support, I decided we needed to find another manner to settle these old debts. So, taking my sons and grandsons, except for a governor for each province, we headed west into the steppes to see what would be the will of the gods. We came upon Gava-Sake, a small settlement in an area with promise, but little present riches. We wrested it from a small troop of bandits and made it ours. Alas, while we increased our grazeland, we did little to pay down the debts. And the husband of my granddaughter lies here, leaving me no greatgrandsons.

    Commentary: The Eleutheroi were getting a bit frisky anyway, so I decided to take the battle to them. One invading force, a small one, fortunately, was eliminated on the southwest edge of the lake at Chighu. From there I sent the five family members west. The garrison of Gava-Sake was only 5 units, mostly horse archers, and I just autoresolved into a victory (chasing them all over the tactical map would be too much of a chore with only my heavy cav). I destroyed one building that's redundant (Chighu can be the production center once I'm no longer broke!) for 800 mnai. I'm eyeing the rest too. Still almost 5000 in the red. Just can't seem to get anything for trade rights, maps or alliances, though I can usually arrange trade rights for free, and occasionally and alliance. The diplomat is on the east coast of the Adriatic where there is a huddle of other diplomats.

    But this third region will do the trick if I can hold out a couple more years. And if I don't let my grandaughters marry and not too many grandsons come of age!


    263 BC, summer:

    Sapalbizes has died. After the years of struggle to pay off the debts, he never saw the day we achieved freedom. If he had lasted one more season he would have. Such is fate. I, Aryandes, will carry on with his dream. Soon we will build new corrals and train new riders. It will yet be years, but the worst is past.

    263 BC, fall:

    Today we burned the last proof of debt. And with the remaining mnai, we established Indiginous Settlements in Sulek to appease the local population, hoping to make them more useful. There is rumor they might provide fighting men of some worth, given time and training. We also trained a new diplomat to remain close to home. His first order will be to secure an alliance with the Baktrians, to give us time to select riders and train garrison troops, perhaps even build stockades around our settlements. Word comes from Shafar who roams in far lands, as far as the western sea. From lands he calls Gaulish, he reports some small success in both securing alliances and trading agreements, along with some small tributes.

    262 BC, summer:

    A third Eleutheroi force assaulted Sulek this summer. It was a heroic battle. Only two of the original four troops of horse archers remain and they are battered. Every arrow we possessed was fired. Every blade shows nicks. But we held against twice our numbers. Perhaps there is some use in those walls. It would at least keep us off the cursed streets that lead everywhere but where we try to ride! I have decided it is not walls that are evil constructions, but streets!

    But we admire the courage of the raiders. Down to 5 men, the general would not retreat from his attack. He came on until our arrows were spent. When my bodyguard and I finally charged the remnants, they died to a man. No quarter was pled. I hope all our enemies shall not be this stalwart or victory's price may cost us more than we can pay!



    Conquest of Sulek


    3rd defense of Sulek (Never say quit!)


    The memorial erected for a valiant foe!

    (Some of the horse archers they brought got away earlier... and a few odd spearmen too.)


    260 BC, spring:

    My King,

    The thaws of the peak ice has apparently released yet another flood of Eleutheroi. Miyika is out of position to give detailed reports, but Sulek is expecting another siege this summer. Well, assault. With no pallisade, siege is stretching a word into the shape of a waterlogged hide. The two units of riders are still on their way back from retraining replacements in Chighu, I understand, but we trained more foot archers and Moga, my 19-year-old nephew, has arrived with his bodyguards. I believe we can fight them off one more time. Once that is done I intend to invest some of these profits from the silk road caravans in a tower up in the pass through which I believe these raiding parties arrive. With your permission, of course. That large bandit army reported years ago bases up in that pass. Our loyal spy, Miyika, reports that army is hiding across the border in Baktria these last years.

    Miyika also has disturbing reports from Baktria. Theodotos Baktrios wintered in a forest to our southwest about two seasons march from our border. But he reports they appear to be conducting training, or a hunt. They have made no further movement in our direction. Included is a list of the troops he has observed. It is not a small army.

    I hear the new diplomat (I have not yet learned his name) has had no success in arranging an alliance with Theodotos.

    I shall write again in the fall, or sooner if I have news of the battle. Or if you hear nothing by winter, it might be best to send a new governor. Rest assured, the price for my life will be high, that is my oath to you.

    Your faithful brother and servant,

    Oxyboakes





    Oxyboakes's Situation Map
    (To the SW is Theodolos. The Eleuthians are just west of Sulek. The replacement troops are NW on the road.)


    Miyika's Report on Theodotos


    Our Faithful Spy



    Prince and Brother,

    The two units of riders are indeed retrained and sent back to you. I hope they arrive in time to be of use again. They are become examples for the youths in courage and proficiency. Already the chanters are composing lines for that great victory of yours! I should be envious. But I'm too busy trying to flatten what little silver we have so that it covers more projects.

    Can no one there design one of those infernal walls you wrote of? As much as it will make the old zealots whine, I do believe you are right in that one would be useful. It seems the silk road is a path for bandits. Perhaps you can find one of the natives who has seen it done? Or find a Baktrian to bribe? If these bandit raids are to be regular, we must be prepared, but you cannot yet support a force large enough to make them wary.

    The news of Theodotos is indeed worrying. We have not a spare troop at present, and one would be the same as none in the face of that, I fear. But I have a plan... If word comes that he has moved towards the pass, two of our sons and their bodyguards can also move into the pass from Wasun Yabgu to Kangha. The Baktrian garrison at Bin-kath is reported to be very small. I am confident that they can take the town. But it is not my intention to do that, so much as to pose the threat should Theodolos threaten you. I know that is no great comfort, directly, but it may prevent him from going further. From Bin-kath they might well strike at Marakando, and perhaps even Baktra itself, if those garrisons are also small, as they have been reported to be in recent years.

    Should the worst happen, do slip away into the mountains. I need you more than I need Sulek, though I desperately need Sulek!

    News just in from Baktra! Either diplomacy is beginning to show results, or the new diplomat, Arta, is a prodigy! When he met with Theodotos's council (since Theo is still in the field on maneuvers, they said) and offered them the latest maps of the far west, they presented him with a pouch containing 2067 mnai! There, build your tower!

    I want to believe this bodes well, but I keep remembering that steppe-rider saying, "Beware Greeks horsing about with gifts." Keep scouts patrolling the passes!

    We will yet ride around the high stone walls of Taksashila, my brother!

    Aryandes, King of the Saka






    Aryandes Contingency Plan
    Last edited by vonsch; 04-06-2007 at 08:49.

  4. #4
    Member Member Tuuvi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Saka AAR(s), Research, or something

    I was going to write a Saka AAR, but you beat me to it. Oh well, I guess there's room for two .

    EDIT:After reading I see you have taken a different aproach, very nice.

    A problem is I can't even see the government alternatives at this point. It would be nice to have some documentation on those. The existing FAQs say we get no type 1 or type 2, but doesn't tell anything about what type 3 or type 4 alternatives there might be. I can see "Migration" (Rataextae) in the Sulek list, though it's Sauromatae in the text it's probably the same for Saka. That's one. "Indigenous Settlements" may be another (the other?) That's present in the list for Chighu.
    Nomadic governments work differently from the other factions. instead of having governments, you first build migration, which represents your people moving into the province. After you choose your way of life, pastoral or nomadic. Nomadic governments allow you to recruit all of your HAs, but they do not let you build walls or farms, and you can only upgrade your market to a very low level. Pastoral governments only let you recruit elite HAs, but you have a wider choice of foot troops and can build palisades and low level farms, and you can upgrade your markets a little higher than with nomadic governments.
    Last edited by Tuuvi; 04-06-2007 at 03:48.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Saka AAR(s), Research, or something

    Quote Originally Posted by Lignator
    I was going to write a Saka AAR, but you beat me to it. Oh well, I guess there's room for two .
    There sure is! And I hope you find a better way to get started than I have in my campaign. I'm thinking maybe I'll try really cheesy next time and just use all my family to try to grab a second region. If I can get started building SOME infrastructure sooner, I can get a stable raiding base going. Even a half-stack of troops above a garrison would do the job for a long time, I suspect.

    Thanks for the info, Lignator. I'm unsure why it appears that I can build both types though. I think. Need to earn more mnai and see what develops.

    Still beating back incursions of Eleutheroi. Fortunately, smallish stacks. I'm barely hanging on. But getting a little building done finally. And some judicious recruiting. I think at least Sulek needs a fence.
    Last edited by vonsch; 04-06-2007 at 05:11.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Saka AAR(s), Research, or something

    Again, this might be things you already know, but I hope it's useful...

    Quote Originally Posted by vonsch
    The diplomat is on the east coast of the Adriatic where there is a huddle of other diplomats.
    You do better if your influence is higher than theirs, so the last thing a diplomat should do is haggle with other professional negotiators. Send him up to those little troop detachments with captains, or small towns with no family members inside.

    It would at least keep us off the cursed streets that lead everywhere but where we try to ride!
    Man, you can say that again. *fume*


    I like palisades. They let you chose when to fight. And raiders often just wander off if they find a palisade (this happened in history too).


    Do you have any road trade worth talking about? Would you actually lose much if bandits interrupted it?
    Last edited by Morte66; 04-06-2007 at 09:38.

    Fight like a meatgrinder

  7. #7

    Default Re: Saka AAR(s), Research, or something

    Nice idea of AAR !
    Another AAR I have in mind I don't have to do, thank you :p

  8. #8

    Default Re: Saka AAR(s), Research, or something

    Quote Originally Posted by Morte66
    Again, this might be things you already know, but I hope it's useful...

    You do better if your influence is higher than theirs, so the last thing a diplomat should do is haggle with other professional negotiators. Send him up to those little troop detachments with captains, or small towns with no family members inside.
    Actually, while I know this, when playing I do tend to forget it. So thanks for the reminder. It's one thing to know something intellectually, and another to actually practice it without thought.


    Quote Originally Posted by Morte66
    Do you have any road trade worth talking about? Would you actually lose much if bandits interrupted it?
    Road trade is very limited so far. I may have an average of 150 or so total for each town. That's mostly because there's very little development still. My net income after my modest upkeep (and generals' wages) is running in the 700-1000 area now. That let's me build one improvement constantly in one town, not much else. And I'm trying to build up a small reserve to crash build troops if I am forced to by a large incursion (which I probably won't be able to beat anyway... but have to try!)

    And I'm still flummoxed by the whole nomad/settler thing. I think I understand the concept, but the implementation remains opaque. I'm not seeing the option to build walls at all, and the path to them is not apparent in the building browser. WIP issues. I'm trying to get at least Sulek set as a settled town, with a pallisade or stockade (or whatever is the limit for Saka), as I suspect it is somewhat programmed for visits due to the silk road. That's just based on my experience thus far and some idea of how I'd design things, were it me. I've had a couple small bandit incursions in the other two regions too, but more frequent ones in Sulek. It may also be that the bandit stack up in the pass just across the border is causing the engine to spawn more. That would explain why Chighu sees few now, since it has no border with an Eleutheroi-held region, and I haven't seen any resident bandit... band. Saba Yabgu had one, along with the garrison, both were destroyed. The patrolling band chased a family member into Wusun Tabgu where I managed to hit it with three members and eliminate it. I think there's one in Dahyu Alanna still, but I haven't seen it in a while. The garrison of Gava-Alanna is large for my available troops (without exposing Sulek to serious risk, and it's 2 years of travel, at least, each way).

    This is definitely a major-league balancing act. Far more so than Casse, which I got about 40 years into, including unifying the Isles.

    Reading every related AAR I can find for ideas and information. The Sauromatae are probably the best comparison, but their starting position is much more robust. If they lose a town early, they don't flat die!

    I think my number one suggestion/request would be that the "government" for these nomads factions be labeled in the same style as the non-nomad factions and with the 1-2-3-4 sort of icon. They don't have to work the same, but it would help if the player could spot them. And the Migration entry needs inclusion in the building browser, with clear explanation that if it's not present, it should be built ASAP when a region is conquered with the intent of retaining it.

    I'm still unsure if the whole "build replacements in a conquered sacked town before abandoning it" idea is viable. I don't yet see that replacements CAN be built in those regions without significant waits for infrastructure building. That would rule it out. And it might be realistic that way. But you'd think that basic troops like low-level horse archer units should come available quickly after a migration... or I would. Somehow. And they may. I am just still in nomad-land, so it's hard to tell since the early nomad structures seem to be in place before I get there.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Saka AAR(s), Research, or something

    On the topic of Saka walls:

    Below is a screenie of the Wooden Wall entry in the building browser. Its requirements are listed as:

    Allied Government
    Small Nomadic Settlement



    My problem is, neither of those are listed in the browser. Chighu and Sulek are both at large town size, so the obvious "too small" is unlikely (though possible). But normally they would still show in the browser, just greyed out. Unless this is some sort of a "reforms" issue. Of course, the wall requires a Wooden Pallisade first, but that has the same requirements listed and can't build that either.


    Another case, Granary. It requires Basic Farming, but that isn't even showing in the browser. Yet when I captured Sulek it had it, so I can build a granary there.



    I'm experimenting with building everything, pretty much, to see if some new building options appear beyond the obvious "next in this progression" stuff. But mnai is VERY tight, and it takes time too. It would help to have some clue what to build next to get from A -> B.

    This is a similar issue to the "which government and MIC do I need to get X unit" questions, except far more basic and aggravating as it affects basic development, not the luxury issue of ideal army composition. Without SOME basic development there is no issue of which unit to build... can't build any units.

    To be clear, not saying that I can't build ANY units... not yet worrying much about which units I can build where as I can't afford to build many, thought it's supporting them that's the huge issue. Chighu can build the nomad-type units, and I can easily get foot archers in any region.
    Last edited by vonsch; 04-06-2007 at 19:18.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Saka AAR(s), Research, or something

    Saka building choices

    Okay, some new info from my testing. All costs are (mnai/turns). And I will establish some abbreviations here, to save typing. I stripped Chighu and Gava-Saka to the basic town to test. (I'll probably get invaded while trying to do this The waits are long for some of these.)

    First, you need to understand (somewhat, unlike me when I started) the different tracks the nomadic factions and their conquests can follow. See this link on the EB site for a chart. (thanks, LorDBula!)
    Second, you need to understand what are Nomadic, Mixed and All-the-Rest regions. See the map here. The darker brown are Mixed, the tan are Nomadic.

    Inhabited Area
    (no reqs)
    - law 5%
    - Saka Foot Archers (896/224)
    - Diplomat (250/50)
    • Migration (2000/4) M

    • Indigenous Settlements (200/1) IS

    • Trader (2000/4) T

    • Altars, 4 types (800/2) Ax (AS, AU, AD, AH)

    • Boddh Thupa (3000/8) BT


    Populated Area
    (reqs: IS, WC, SNS, WHH)
    - law 10%
    - Saka Foot Archers (896/224)
    - Diplomat (250/50)
    • Migration (2000/4) M

    • Indigenous Settlements (200/1) IS

    • Trader (2000/4) T / Market (3500/6) Mt

    • Altars, 4 types (800/2) Ax (AS, AU, AD, AH)

    • Boddh Thupa (3000/8) BT


    Densely populated Area
    (reqs: IS, WC, SNS, WHH)
    - law 15%
    - Saka Foot Archers (896/224)
    - Diplomat (250/50)
    (Will rarely see this without some of the following, but possible they may still be available to build if it's a captured large town.)
    • Migration (2000/4) M

    • Indigenous Settlements (200/1) IS

    • Trader (2000/4) T / Market (3500/6) Mt

    • Altars, 4 types (800/2) Ax (AS, AU, AD, AH)

    • Boddh Thupa (3000/8) BT


    T (Trader)
    (trade revenues increased from 118 to 128, roughly 10%. Also increased trade for trade partner regions.)
    - Increased trade goods
    - pop 0.5%
    • Market (3500/6) Mt


    Mt (Market)
    (req: T)
    - Increased trade goods
    - pop 0.5%
    - Spy (350/100)

    AD (Altar of Druvaspa)
    (trade income went from 128 to 141 locally. Slight increase with trading partner too, it appears.)
    - Increased trade goods
    • Large Altar of Druvaspa (1600/4) LAD


    LAD (Large Altar of Druvaspa)
    (trade income went from 142 to 152 locally. Slight improvement to trading partners also.)
    - Increased trade goods
    - pop 0.5%
    • Great Altar of Druvaspa (3200/8) GAD


    GAD (Great Altar of Druvaspa)
    (trade income went from 152 to ? locally. Slight improvement to trading partners also.)
    - Increased trade goods
    - pop 0.5%
    - happiness 5%

    PT (Purification tent)
    (req: ?)
    - health 10%
    • Healer (1600/4) H


    H (Healer)
    (req: PT)
    - health 10% (looks like an error in health amounts between PT and H, probably should be 5% and 10% respectively)

    M (Migration)
    (req: conquest. If you plan to grow this region at all, M is required.)
    • Nomadism (100/1) N (requires region to be Nomadic or Mixed)

    • Pastoralism (100/1) P (requires region to be non-Nomadic)

    • Elite Herds (2000/2) EH


    N (Nomadism)
    (Req: M. This starts the "nomadic" path. It excludes the "settled" path launched with Pastoralism.)
    - law 5%
    - law/10% High King's Herds (maybe with both N and HKH?)
    • Warlord's Camp (800/2) WC


    EH (Elite Herds)
    (Nothing new appeared with this set, may be a complex trigger with some others... think so. Also required for growth.)

    WC (Warlord's Camp)
    - Saka Foot Archers (896/224)
    - Sarmatian Horse-Archers (1089/272)
    • Hunting Grounds (2000/6) HG

    • Warlord's Courts (2200/6) WCt


    WCt (Warlord's Courts)
    - Early Saka Nobles (3497/874)
    • Royal Courts (5000/8) RC (requires Populated Area & Royal Camp)


    RC (Royal Courts)
    - Early Saka Nobles (3497/874)
    • High King's Courts (10000/12) HKC (requires Densely Populated Area & High King's Camp)


    HKC (High King's Courts)
    - Early Saka Nobles (3497/874)

    P (Pastoralism)
    (req: M and non-nomadic region. This starts the "settled" track. It excludes the "nomadic" track. May increase farming income directly, like a farming level... need to test again. Hmm, something is showing up as a farming upgrade, but can't figure out what so far. This improvement is gone and still seeing two icons.)
    - law 5%
    • Basic Farming (1200/4) BF

    • Trading Paths (800/2) TP

    • Small Nomadic Settlement (1600/6) SNS


    BF (Basic Farming)
    (req: P.)
    - Improved Farms and Food Production
    • Granary (1600/4) G


    g (Granary)
    (req: BF)
    - pop 0.5%
    • Grain Silo [6400/8] GS (error, it seems)


    TP (Trading Paths)
    (reqs: P. Trade went from 118 to 120 locally.)
    - Improved roads and trade

    SNS (Small Nomadic Settlement)
    (reqs: P)
    - Saka Foot Archers (896/224)
    • Wooden Pallisade (800/2) WP


    LNS (Large Nomadic Settlement)
    (reqs: SNS)
    - Saka Foot Archers (896/224)
    - Sampul Infantry (896/224)
    • Wooden Pallisade (800/2) WP


    WP (Wooden Pallisade)
    (reqs: IS, SNS)
    - Extra Wall Defenses
    • Wooden Wall (1600/4) WW


    WW (Wooden Wall)
    (reqs: WP)
    - Extra Wall Defenses
    - Reinforced Gates

    IS (Indigenous Settlements)
    (Precursor to non-nomadic lines of MICs which may only be built in non-nomadic or non-mixed regions, it appears.)
    - law 5%
    • Trade Route Scout Parties (1000/8) TRSP

    • Allied Government (300/1) AG (only if not mixed or nomadic region)


    AG (Allied Government)
    (req: IS and neither mixed nor nomadic region)


    TRSP (Trade Route Scout Parties)
    (Nothing new, and no change apparent in trade. Pre-req for trade caravans according to text.)
    - pop 0.5%


    Note: You can build pastoralism, then build some things that will persist, such as roads and granaries and farms, and then convert to nomadism by destroying the pastoralism and doing a new migration. It takes time and mnai. You can't have camps and courts co-resident with pastoralism though, so it appears you need to go from pastoralism to nomadism if you want some of the pastoralism benefits.
    Last edited by vonsch; 04-08-2007 at 07:45.

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