Rome almost defeated

[DMu]

I'm in trouble.

In my Roman campaign, I pacified the South, Corsica and Sardinia, so I don't get much grief with the Epirotes and the Carthaginians.

But now, the Aedui are getting so powerful that they lay siege to this Aventicos town that I conquered. I mostly trained Celts to deal with Celts, and even got a full stack army (fully trained Roman citizen legion, hastati, principes, and triarii etc) into the vicinity. Except after a few victories, the armies got decimated. after facing several stacks.

So while I'm occupied with Aedui, the Sweboz starts attacking. I took one of their towns (Iuva or something), looted it, and abandoned it.

But then a few turns later, the Sweboz and Aedui ally and laid siege to Aventicos and captured it. Then they turned to Milan, and Segesta. I tried to reinforce Segesta by moving the Arpi Garisson of Archers to Segesta, but the city fell before the reinforcements could get there.

So now, Milan is on it's last legs, with Sweboz eyeing Patavium.

And the 1 turn recruiting is killing me. I need more men! I could bring the men up from the central and South penisula, but it's just too slow.

One thing I learned though, is the value of Archers, specifically, fire arrows are my friend.

Oh, and I got this Scipio Asina guy into Vanquisher of Germans when he captured Iuva, but then he died a few turns later in the siege.

[CountArach]

I would fall back. Drag whatever troops you still have in Northern Italy towards Arretium, and start recruiting everywhere. Start stockpiling mercenaries as well. I would disband any ships you have, because they will just be wasted money for you.

Have you had the Polybian reforms? What difficulty are you playing?

[Intranetusa]

can you send me your saved game? Your game progression sounds fun :)

Anyways, plz post a screenshot of the campaign mini map so we have a better idea what you're talking about.

Since you're doing badly, are you playing by any house rules or something?

If you have enough cash, just hire crap loads of mercs...

[DMu]

playing M/M, with Polybian reforms!
That's what I'm going to do, I guess, fall back! Fall back!

[Intranetusa]

"playing M/M, with Polybian reforms!"

Are you new to Rome total war?

Cuz most people steam roll by polybian reforms...even on VH/VH.


Build forts so the enemy don't seige your cities & cut off your trade income...build mercs and go on the offensive.

btw, are you playing by any house rules?

[DMu]

The problem is with finances.
I also distrust mercs for some reason, but I might give it a try.
Yes, I'm fairly new, or rather, I never get into the game to study the tactics, etc.
Anyway, the point is I almost always put my battle formation like this

AAAAA

G HHHHH G

PPPPP

TTTTT

(Archers or slingers) Hastati, Principe and Triarii. and (General and cavalry)

And I'm a hopeless Infantry nut, so I always or almost always put the Gs in the AI control

Total noob, I know.

[CaesarAugustus]

Like CA said, pull all troops out of other parts of your empire and reinforce Italy. If you allow Milan and Segesta to bw taken then you will soon be facing a situation similar to the Second Punic War. Divert all funds to creating more legions. Upgrade walls in your threatened Northern Italian cities. Make sure that your central Italian cities (which, at this point in the game, are by far your best) are well guarded in case any sneaky barbarians slip past.


After you are safe from attack in Italy, you might want to spend some time consolidating your power, makeing economic improvements and building up armies. Take your time, and play on the defensive. Your soldiers shouldn't cross the Alps until you're confident that you are prepared for anything and everything.

Don't over expand, and go into Spain before Gaul. Conquering Gaul is what indirectly caused all of the problems in my (recently abandoned) Romani campaign, and led to my eventual downfall.

Above all, don't give up, even if the barbarian alliance surrounds Roma itself! Remember that Roman stubborness even in the face of certain defeat is what saved them from Hannibal. Good luck on your campaign.

[Intranetusa]

The problem is with finances.
I also distrust mercs for some reason, but I might give it a try.
Yes, I'm fairly new, or rather, I never get into the game to study the tactics, etc.
Anyway, the point is I almost always put my battle formation like this
(Archers or slingers) Hastati, Principe and Triarii. and (General and cavalry)

And I'm a hopeless Infantry nut, so I always or almost always put the Gs in the AI control

Total noob, I know.

lol, you should've played RTW before playing the EB mod
also don't use formations...just stretch out your infantry melee force and surround the enemy when they engage. Works every time and causes massive enemy rout with few casualties yourself. Archers/skirmishers in front of course

[CaesarAugustus]

I agree, formations are fun for roleplaying, but in times of emergency you might have to make an exception.

[antisocialmunky]

Well, if you can, engage them at the rivers and kill them that way. To fix your finances, you really ought to focus on building roads, the medium market, and a decent port in your coastal provinces. Also, trade rights with the Greeks help too. Don't build too many ships, either.

Also, AI control sucks. As a general rule of thumb, you want all your heavy infantry in the middle with lighter infantry behind, skirmishers(meat shields) infront to protect your heavy infantry, and elites on the edges, middle, or behind your main line incase something bad happens. Cavalry should be put on the sides. Slingers should be on the sides or infront while archers should be hinding behind your infantry.

[DMu]

Here's a pic
I got confused with Arverni and Aedui, anyway, it was the Arverni
I didn't realise it was 225 BC already. I got Polybian in 240 something.


I'm screwed, right?

good god!
I didn't realise it, but looking at the pic now, I think the Macedonians are even deader than I am.
Anyway, I played with fog of war on.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Screwed? Nah, but it will be a challenge. You've gotta sqeeze every bit of worth out of your units, and use your generals as liberally as possible too. Those guys will grow back as long as the character doesn't die, remember. The best thing is that you can concentrate all your efforts on the north. Try to find one of your two enemies allies, and ally with them - one of the two might come over to your side in time. Then focus on taking out the other one.

[antisocialmunky]

Its not bad. If you can conquer the areas beyong the Alps, you can kill hordes of celts at the river crossings. However, I'd get Segesta back first...

[DMu]

http://www.geocities.com/darth_u/rome2.zip

So anyway, here's the savegame for anyone interested.

[antisocialmunky]

OMG, I didn't even how big the AS had gotten. Crap.

[CaesarAugustus]

You're not screwed yet, the Sweboz were even bigger in my campaign. Your first priority now is to take back Segesta. Then you might want to seal off the Alps with (free!) forts.

PS: Lower the taxes on Arminium. I noticed its population isn't growing.

[NeoSpartan]

Dang? Where u roleplaing or something, sh*t 240BC and ur still in Italy.

Anywho, I'll advice that you start getting fancy in ur battles and start using terrian to ur advange (hint* HILLS!!!)

Also, recruit Pezetaroi (sp) from southern Italy. A few of them will basically form an unbreakable center, and use the rest of ur army to outflank.

Let us know who it goes!!!

[CountArach]

Dang? Where u roleplaing or something, sh*t 240BC and ur still in Italy.

This makes the game so much mroe fun, because your enemies are actually strong by the time you reach them.

Alright, what I would suggest at this point would be to empty the Patavium garrison of anyone that can be spared. It doesn't look seriously threatened, so lower the taxes and empty the people out of there. Start recruiting lots of Roman core units. Start playing around with having Gauls on your flanks. Their spears will work well against cavalry, and they will save you money.

Start getting some mercenaries and stuff ready in Bononia and Arretium. With these units and any other troops you ahve recruited by then, attack Segesta. This should definitely be enough.

Assuming Mediolanium holds (Which it may or may not), start placing your armies in areas that you can ambush people on their way to your towns. Also block off at least one pass with a strong garrison in a fort.

Then you should strike north with two decent strength armies (at least 12 or so units) and capture and burn Aventicos and Veldideno, letting them rebel. This should buy you some time. With this time, start recruiting more soldiers and mercs. Then you should strike at Massalia, which thanks to the bridges is very easy to defend with a medium sized army.

From there you could really go anywhere. I would ignore the suggestion to go to Spain, openning another front isn't a great idea at this point. Working your way along the south of Gaul would be alright, because you are taking the most profitable Arverni towns from them.

Anyway, that's my advice, take what you want.

[CaesarAugustus]

Taking Southern Gaul will open up a large, undefended border for the barbarians to pour in to your empire. While depriving the Arverni of their best provinces is a good idea, you may want to try a Carthaginian solution on those Gallic provinces. (Exterminate the populace, destry every building that you can, and leave it to the rebels.) If you do take southern gaul, you might have some problems.

In my experience, taking half Gaul will just encourage attacks every turn on your cities from the North, which are left out in the open with no Alps to protect them. This makes economic development very hard as you are paying for more men to garrison/re-capture those cities. If you take all of Gaul up to the Rhine, then you will be provoking the even more dangerous Sweboz. Taking Gaul early is what killed my economy (I had too much pride to just give it up.) My suggestion is just to conquer Massalia and maybe Tolosa.

That is why I suggest that you try to take Illyria or Spain, both of which seem to turn a profit more quickly. Be aware that Spian will open up a front against two factions tough, so like CA said it might not be the best idea.

As soon as Italy is secured, try investing in a German Legion. This legion, comprised of a 19-stack combination of Polybian troops of your choice and led by a good general, will head North. Using this legion, apply the Carthaginian solution to every barbarian city in your path, making your way up to the Sweboz homeland. Once you have lain waste to the homeland, feel free to move attack the Arverni from the backdoor if your legion is still in fighting shape. Of course, you might be in no position to do this, just try if you have the extra money. Hopefully this tactic will cripple the barbarians.

I might want to try your savegame, btw. What version of EB are you using DMu, and do you have any other mini-mods installed?

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Perhaps you can ally with the Sarmatians or with Epirus. Build forts in the alp-passes. And command your Cavalry yourself! Cavalry is in my opinion just the most important and deciding unit. Conquer Segesta and Segestica, and then try to conquer the four alp-provinces, they will give you alot of money.

[Intranetusa]

^ yeh, what the other ppl said. Just skip the role playing and start steam rolling. Micro manage your battles and you'll never lose. Start your imperial expansion :)

[DMu]

after a few turns, status report:

I destroyed the siege army of the Sweboz around Milan with my Garrison. Had Lucanius from Patavium build forts along the river crossings.

Except after a few more turns...

Lucanius was destroyed.
Patavium is has been captured by Sweboz
Milan is okay now, I guess.
So the network of forts (around 4 or 5) have 2 units or less in them, with one fort near Segesta in the hand of the Arverni.

But I did bring up my Hellenic army that was training in Taras. (It composed of my faction leader, classical hoplites and hellenic archers) It is expected to retake Patavium, and later Segesta.



I'm also starting to train a Imperial legion.

[antisocialmunky]

Use slingers, they kill EVERYTHING.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Try to use slingers rather then archers - slingers have generally more range and impact.

[DMu]

Because of my noobishness...

Patavium was retaken, as was Segesta

However...

Patavium is under siege by one and 3/4 full stack of Sweboz.
Milan is okay for the moment, but going to be under siege soon.
Arverni planning to siege Segesta.

I did dispatch what's left of my Hellenic army into Sweboz territory.
After two battles, my Faction heir died. Leaving 100 to 200 troops. (I think they started with 600 or so. But breaking the siege of Milan in the woods cost them.

Now I don't have an army to fight the one and 3/4 full stack of Sweboz bent on blood in Patavium.

Oh and I dispatched the 4 to 5 generals from Rome to the front lines with a bunch of archers.

They died.

I think I'm hopelessly noobish.

In the years 223 to 222. BC

Pahlava destroyed
Lusotana declare war against Arverni
SPQR declare war against Arverni

[NeoSpartan]

Because of my noobishness...
........
Oh and I dispatched the 4 to 5 generals from Rome to the front lines with a bunch of archers.

They died.
.....

..

Bad, bad, bad, move....

Are you reading the unit descriptions??? Archers are Very WEAK and have a very s***ty range (exept for Eastern archers), if your going to use long range missile units use Slingers they have A LOT more range and killing power.

Thats 1 thing u did wrong... The other one was having a bad army composition. You should have a mix of Cavarly, Heavy Infantry, and a few Slingers (for western non-phalanx factions).

Later in the week I will dl your saved game play a few battles, take pics of them and show u a few tactics you can start taking into consideration.

In the meantime, this link should give you some examples of battle tactics, eventhough is mainly for KH it should help you,

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=70060

on the send page is a detailed battle, this should give you an idea of how to you Phalanx-based armies.

[CaesarAugustus]

Why are you using so many Greek units? You're the Romans, not some cowardly, weak Greek faction. Put all of your money that you set aside for military spending to build your Polybian legions.

Of course, I'm not going to deny that the phalanx is good for holding the line against barbraians so you should have some of them too, but personally I'm much more comfortable with a Roman legion than mercenary Greeks. Try an army of Principes, Triarii, and a few Phalanx units. Oh, and don't forget slingers. The phalanx will hold the center line while the Principes will be the maneuverable reserves to direct wher they are need. Put the Triarii on the flanks because they can move faster than phalanx units and aren't as vulnerable to flanking. Also their spears will give them some degree of protection against cavalry. Use your own cavalry to flank and harass the enemy, though they are not for melees. If they are taking too many casualties, pull them out. Put your slingers behind the phalanx units. And finally, no more suicide missions with Generals.

[alatar]

Buiold a simple army, 2 hastaia, 2 pripies and a triia, then have a general and some cavarly, then get lots of slingers. Once you engage the gaulls move the slingers to there rear and target one unit at a time to make holes in there line, then continue untill they rout.

[Orb]

Slinger abuse is fairly pathetic. 1-2 units in a stack is OK, but more are both uneccessary, unrealistic (there were not huge numbers available at any one time) and even boring (there's little point in fighting an 'epic battle' where 75% of the entire enemy force is gunned down because the AI is poor at dealing with ranged attackers).

If that's the way you really want to play the game, you can do so, but it isn't the way it was meant to be played.

[Rilder]

Slinger abuse is fairly pathetic. 1-2 units in a stack is OK, but more are both uneccessary, unrealistic (there were not huge numbers available at any one time) and even boring (there's little point in fighting an 'epic battle' where 75% of the entire enemy force is gunned down because the AI is poor at dealing with ranged attackers).

If that's the way you really want to play the game, you can do so, but it isn't the way it was meant to be played.

Exactly, in my book, its an exploit (don't take this as an insult), I tend to limit myself to at most in my armies 2 slinger units or less, and I tend not to lose...