My only gripe with EB

[Enguerrand de Sarnéac]

Then EB isn't the right mod I suppose...It's aimed for maximum realism, and even one hour for an actual battle is short compared to ancient battles.
Unit HP won't really help to speed things a little up; for instance your phalanxes aren't protected by high hitpoint values, but by their formation and armour... It's all balanced, believe me. You can't hope to win if you don't use tactics (especially for those bloody phalanxes of yours )

The EB team probably won't make another version for a more excited gameplay; there are mods enough to do that (can't say I speak for the team though) I suppose EB will stick with it's own, addicted audience

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

It is entirely possible to shatter your enemy quickly, but it requires tactics, surround them, kill their general, rain flaming arrows on them.

As to the Phalanx, let me give you a piece of advice, use some of that time to appreciate that there are two groups of men locked in deadly combat on your computer screen.

[Watchman]

Even phalanx pushes can sometimes get pretty dramatic. Once very early into a campaign I was rather rudely surprised when the sole enemy Pantodapoi Phalangitai unit attacked in very deep formation and simply cleft apart my rather thinner-deployed sole equivalent pike unit, quickly causing severe casualties and requiring the intervention of several other units to prevent a complete disaster on that part of the line.

Me like.

[Lysander13]

Yea realistic battles totally stink.....It's annoying having to actually use tactics and stuff to win battles...I'd much prefer to go back to the vanilla days when units routed on contact.

[The Celt]

Whats so bad about phalanxes? In my campaigns all the AI ever recruits is loads of skirmish units and some Theruphoroi(sp?). And on occasion I might see a pantopoi Phalangetai.(Which my cavalry make mincemeat out of.)So whats so hard about phalanx armies again? Or more importantly, WHERE are the phalanx armies?

[vonsch]

See, I am of the opposite mind. I just fought a battle, odds slightly in my favor, but I wanted to preserve certain units that I wanted back on the road immediately from damage, and allow the local garrison to absorb what damage had to happen. This is very hard to do with vanilla or most mods. The pace is just too fast in battle, even on normal speed.

But in this case I could charge my HA I wanted unharmed around the flank to the rear to put their arrows to use, and allow my foot archers to accept the charge of the light spears that were mostly what the enemy had. Meanwhile, a couple bodyguard units pinned and surrounded the one young noble cav unit that was the threat to my HA units since they too have bows and speed.

No way I would count on a foot archer unit (of the first tier, basic sort) to hold against light spears for long enough to make this work. The one unit charged took about 20 losses. Then the rest of my cav killed their general and routed the other two spears (total 4 spears and 1 light nobles) and still had time to charge the rear of the spears pinned by the archers, routing them instantly too.


But the cav on cav (mostly) battle I fought last night was long and bloody and gripping. Cav does not melee well, so to do much damage you have to pull it out and recharge it over and over while pinning the target with something (in this case, more cav, I had them take turns). If you try to just let the cav forces hack at each other until conclusion, you may as well go out to dinner... or autoresolve. But if you exercise tactical command, you stay busy and interested. And you have more time to do so with EB because units are more durable.

Tactics actually work, and you have time to employ them. But the AI does too, so keep an eye on it. Once it a while it manages to pull off a nice flanking move if you just sit.

[mlc82]

I've always been under the impression that phalanx on phalanx battles weren't all that bloody until one side or the other broke and ran.

[Juvenal]

I have played other mods with movement adjustments, but EB seems to have achieved a sweet-spot in my opinion.

Fresh troops move at a reasonable rate, but light troops can rings around heavies, and cavalry are fast enough to achieve tactical surprise (in other words you have to anticipate cavalry flanking if you want any chance of intercepting with infantry).

Exhausted troops become dramatically slower. This adds a whole new tactical challenge over Vanilla, because you have to try to rest troops before they become exhausted.

Recovery from exhaustion is fast enough for you to contemplate using the troops again before the end of the battle, but slow enough to compromise any blitzing plans you may have had.

All in all, I think the current movement and exhaustion/recovery rates work very well. Of course I have experienced the frustration of exhausted heavy infantry running so slowly they leave a slime trail - but at least I know it was my own fault.

The only problem I have with all this is that auto-resolve is unbalanced, forcing me to play almost every battle. However, this is not the fault of the EB team as I believe RTW is hard-coded to use campaign difficulty for auto-resolve.

[mlc82]

Personally, I like the slow battles and especially the increased fatigue rate. One of my favorite EB tactics in a siege is to send a medium quality infantry (hastati if playing as Rome, etc) unit in first to wear down and tire out the defenders (usually some superior defensive unit like heavy hoplites or etc), then pull my attackers back and send something truly nasty like well rested heavy samnite infantry in to kill them all off.

[Sheep]

I've always been under the impression that phalanx on phalanx battles weren't all that bloody until one side or the other broke and ran.

That's one of the reasons it was so popular, I guess. You could win a battle and still have some guys left to fight the next one.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

I wish I could run battles on increased speed. Whenever I increase speed, not only does my frame rate go way down and I get lag, but the game will actually hang up for several seconds at a time.

I generally like the battle slowness, but agree and also hate it when you get the 'three guys surrounded by three thousand' who just won't die.