My only gripe with EB

[Rilder]

I usually only use accelerated time when I'm marching across long distances, get low frames at max Time compression... plus I like to make sure everythings going well and am constantly manevering...

[NeoSpartan]

THe slower kill rates are the BEST THING EVER.

Now you can realislically see units slugging it out. In vanilla, you could loose 3/4 of ur units in under 15 seconds from a cavarly charge. And in Pike Vs. Pike, the weaker line would melt one layer at a time, and 30seconds later the unit routs. WTF!!!!

EB got it right on the $$. The only thing that bugs me is that the AI can't manage Fatige and almost always arrives Tired to battle.

Also, I can't turn off fatige in the Preferences folder, I change it and nothing happens.

[antisocialmunky]

Well, yeah, phalanxes are boring when they fight each other unless you deploy your phalanxes to split the enemy or flank like a madman... Or have slingers. Try to be creative, EB allows alot of freedom for implementing tactics.

[Karielle]

Also, I can't turn off fatige in the Preferences folder, I change it and nothing happens.

I think that has something to do with changing preferences mid-game.. If you start a new campaign you'll probably see the change.

Oh, and I only speed up battles when I'm done deploying and the enemy army still marching in from far away.. usually in the heat of battle I seem to have a thousand and one things not going the way I want them to go, so as a result I spend most of the battle more or less micromanaging. It's fun, for me at least.

[Intranetusa]

just set the game to 3x speed when all your units are engaged.

Sometimes, I like to hire heavy cavalry mercs (Thracian cavalry, Thassalian Macedonian cavalry, etc)...I once had an army that was 50% heavy cavalry...but I disbanded them cuz it made the battles too easy.
One heavy cavalry charge into an enemy's rear made them rout in 3 seconds.

[Rilder]

Also, I can't turn off fatige in the Preferences folder, I change it and nothing happens.

Wrong prefrences folder I suspect, go into were your Rome-Total war:EB folder is go into the EB subfolder in that and go into the prefrences folder and change that one so the path is like:(at least on mine)

I/Program Files/The Creative Assembly/Europa Barbarorum/EB/Prefrences/Prefrences.txt

Don't ask about the I for my main hard-drive letter.

[swell]

THe slower kill rates are the BEST THING EVER.

Now you can realislically see units slugging it out. In vanilla, you could loose 3/4 of ur units in under 15 seconds from a cavarly charge. And in Pike Vs. Pike, the weaker line would melt one layer at a time, and 30seconds later the unit routs. WTF!!!!

EB got it right on the $$. The only thing that bugs me is that the AI can't manage Fatige and almost always arrives Tired to battle.

About the kill rates I agree 100% !!!
The movement rates are still a bit too fast for me , but I can change that easily.

[Yun Dog]

THe slower kill rates are the BEST THING EVER.

Now you can realislically see units slugging it out. In vanilla, you could loose 3/4 of ur units in under 15 seconds from a cavarly charge. And in Pike Vs. Pike, the weaker line would melt one layer at a time, and 30seconds later the unit routs. WTF!!!!

EB got it right on the $$. The only thing that bugs me is that the AI can't manage Fatige and almost always arrives Tired to battle.

Also, I can't turn off fatige in the Preferences folder, I change it and nothing happens.

AMEN brother

please dont change a thing ... I am loving that I can actually use tactics in battle again, having time to pull a flanking manouver, its my little piece of STW heaven re-incarnated

dude you want those fast, blob battles back... go back to vanilla and learn to LOVE IT

[ZhaZ]

I agree that Vanilla is too fast and unrealistic. But at the same time. As you see its not only me that has a drastically different view of watching the units "slugging it out".

The graphics are still based on RTW and not made for this speed. Thus you'll see the same animation over and over again. The spear animation forward and back. Noone dying. No new moves.

Anyway, thanks for discussion.

[Watchman]

That does sound like a fairly accurate description of ancient mass warfare. Too bad the game engine doesn't allow for the way the formations tended to keep butting heads for hours, pulling back to reform, catch their breath and gather their courage for another bout every now and then, until someone's resovle broke...

[Quilts]

Hi,

I reckon the infantry vs infantry combat in EB is pretty well modelled. If anything, casualties could be lessened and combined with a lowering of morale to prevent the 'high end' units sticking around when outnumbered and surrounded. The need to expediate the route with repeated cavalry charges to the rear is at times a little 'repetative'.

The one aspect that I have difficulty getting my head around is cavalry vs infantry. Let me explain. Because we look at the little figures on the screen charge in and fight we model their behaviour on this, and generally this only. It's hard not to when that's what the little men on the screen are doing.

But would real cavalry do this? Or would they charge, see the enemy didn't break, wheel away and hurl some spears/javelins/insults, before reforming and trying again. Perhaps a few of the braver individuals would remain close-by to try and tempt some of the infantry to advance and break their line sufficiently for other cavalry to exploit the gap.

It became a battle of wills rather than brawn, with few actual formation vs formation combats. If the infantry were confident they may advance in formation and force the cavalry to retreat. If the infantry lacked confidence they would huddle together and be assailed by the cavalry (as described above).

Eventually the actions of one (combined with surrounding events) would cause one side or the other to retire/route/flee.

But we can't model that in the game, can we? As a miniatures wargamer I 'learnt' to 'conceptualise' that just because 2 miniatures bases were in contact didn't necessarily mean they were exchanging blows. They could very well be, but perhaps they are just occupying each others 'attention'.

So despite the fact we see the men involved in a swirling melee (about all the engine can cope with) perhaps we can 'conceptualise' they are engaged in this battle of wills by-

1. Lowering charge values. Cavalry would rarely charge into contact against a formation as the game portrays. Gaps yes, but formations.....no.
2. Giving cavalry the 'frighten infantry' attribute.
3. Increasing cavalry defence values so they stay around longer. Part of that 'conceptualising' they are occupying the infantry's attention but wise enough to stay away from their spears.

This would mean that cavalry could 'flank' but it's their presence and boosted fear value vs infantry that may cause the enemy to route (with the lowered morale values I mentioned above) rather than charge, retreat, charge etc etc(which requires micro-management the AI is not capable of).

Anyways, need to take a breath. Just wanted to 'throw this out there' for comment.

Cheers,

Quilts

[swell]

1. Lowering charge values. Cavalry would rarely charge into contact against a formation as the game portrays. Gaps yes, but formations.....no.
2. Giving cavalry the 'frighten infantry' attribute.
3. Increasing cavalry defence values so they stay around longer. Part of that 'conceptualising' they are occupying the infantry's attention but wise enough to stay away from their spears.

Interesting, Quilts ! I'll try that. 'frighten infantry'

Another thing we can do is to improve cavalry visualization : by adding the "area" ability in the attributes of cavalry units.
Why ?

I remember the first time I saw the "area cavalry" in effect.
I was playing Greeks in DarthMod, and the AI besieged one of my cities. 2 cavalry units charged a gate guarded by 2 phalanx units in a "V" formation. (silly AI )
Then, I saw my men pushed back by the horses, waving strongly !!
It seemed they were collapsing !
I thought 'HUH do they rout or what ??' and screamed 'Go back in formation you idiots !!'
A few seconds later, they reformed, and the 2 cavalry were finally slaughtered, and routed.
In my hundred hours of play with RTW, it was the most amazing (and scariest) moment I lived

It removes the 'static' behaviour of cavalry. After all, horses should be able to 'move' infantry, even in melee.

I'm testing now the area effect on more units.
The battlefied should look like a dancing floor.