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  1. #1
    The Philosopher Duke Member Suraknar's Avatar
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    Default Re: British values lessons 'racist'

    Quote Originally Posted by Cataphract_Of_The_City
    That's why I used quotation marks. And besides, racism nowadays does not necessarily mean prejudice against a race but also an ethnicity, a culture, a people.
    Yup yup, specially since Human Races dont exist..and were but a belief of in the 18th-19th century.

    @Lancelot, welcome to multiculturalism :)
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    Member Member Del Arroyo's Avatar
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    Default Re: British values lessons 'racist'

    OK, yes it's retarded to call it "racism".

    But consider this.

    My LT one day was having a conversation with a visiting SgM. SgM was walking by and saw that he had a book called "The Arab Mind" sitting on his desk, and SgM proceeds to say that it's a stupid book.

    When asked to give an example of the 'American Mind', LT says that we have respect for intellectual property and innovation, and this was why we had invented so many things. He said that these concepts simply didn't exist anywhere else in the world, and that was why almost no recent inventions had come from anywhere else. And it was all because us Americans think different.

    So, as you can see, a patiotic education can lead to a bit of retardation. Though for the average citizen sitting on his couch watching HBO, there's little drawback.

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    Member Member Azi Tohak's Avatar
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    Default Re: British values lessons 'racist'

    At the NUT conference, in Harrogate, Ms Ghale said Education Secretary Alan Johnson had described the "values we hold very dear in Britain" as "free speech, tolerance, respect for the rule of law".

    "Well, in what way, I'd like to know, are these values that are not held by the peoples of other countries?" she said.
    I don't think any nation outside Europe and its former colonies values the first two. Christians are imprisoned, enslaved or killed in many nations. Doesn't seem very tolerant of Saudi Arabia (where I'm headed), Sudan, or China.

    Azi
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    Humbled Father Member Duke of Gloucester's Avatar
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    Default Re: British values lessons 'racist'

    Quote Originally Posted by Azi Tohak
    I don't think any nation outside Europe and its former colonies values the first two. Christians are imprisoned, enslaved or killed in many nations. Doesn't seem very tolerant of Saudi Arabia (where I'm headed), Sudan, or China.

    Azi
    This part of her speech is the bit that makes sense. "British Values" is an intellectually empty concept. You can't gain consensus among the British as to what these values are, unless, like Alan Johnson, you choose values that many, probably most, other countries would claim too. As an educator she has a moral duty to call the government on this. Unfortunately she has added her own intellectual sloppiness saying that the approach is "racist" rather than just saying it is silly. No surprise really. Teacher Unions and the NUT in particular never demonstrate the intellectual side of the profession.
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    Master of Few Words Senior Member KukriKhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: British values lessons 'racist'

    lancelot gets the Kukri Easter-bunny prize for today's cleverest turn-of-phrase, for:

    even if these 'lessons' consisted of x white people did this and then x white people did that, then they all lived happily whitely ever after etc etc
    That just cracked me up.
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    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: British values lessons 'racist'

    According to what I read, she didn’t tell the British Values are Racists. She said that to present Freedom of Speech and others things as English is racist, and she would preferred to speak of kind of Common Values, something like that…
    And after she spoke about the imposition of this values on others, which demonstrates her total irresponsibility.
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    Come to daddy Member Geoffrey S's Avatar
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    Default Re: British values lessons 'racist'

    Quote Originally Posted by Del Arroyo
    When asked to give an example of the 'American Mind', LT says that we have respect for intellectual property and innovation, and this was why we had invented so many things. He said that these concepts simply didn't exist anywhere else in the world, and that was why almost no recent inventions had come from anywhere else. And it was all because us Americans think different.

    So, as you can see, a patiotic education can lead to a bit of retardation. Though for the average citizen sitting on his couch watching HBO, there's little drawback.
    Slight off-topic, but the basic premise isn't incorrect. I don't know the book or the people involved, so I may be misrepresenting both, but the effect that protection of intellectual property had was probably a major reason for the rise of the West relative to the rest of the world. Institutional evolution played a huge part in the rise Europe, with laws guaranteeing basic rights protecting individuals from physical harm and random justice by lords eventually leading to laws and systems protecting innovators from economic risks and to a large extent plagiarism. This evolution of basic rights of the individual, making for a safer world and more inclination to try something new, was uniquely Western and quite possibly essential for the rise of the West in the late eighteenth and the nineteenth century. A fascinating (early and fundamental) book on the theory is The Rise of the Western World by Douglass North.
    "The facts of history cannot be purely objective, since they become facts of history only in virtue of the significance attached to them by the historian." E.H. Carr

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    Member Member Del Arroyo's Avatar
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    Default Re: British values lessons 'racist'

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffrey S
    Slight off-topic, but the basic premise isn't incorrect. I don't know the book or the people involved, so I may be misrepresenting both, but the effect that protection of intellectual property had was probably a major reason for the rise of the West relative to the rest of the world. Institutional evolution played a huge part in the rise Europe, with laws guaranteeing basic rights protecting individuals from physical harm and random justice by lords eventually leading to laws and systems protecting innovators from economic risks and to a large extent plagiarism. This evolution of basic rights of the individual, making for a safer world and more inclination to try something new, was uniquely Western and quite possibly essential for the rise of the West in the late eighteenth and the nineteenth century. A fascinating (early and fundamental) book on the theory is The Rise of the Western World by Douglass North.
    Sure, but it still has nothing to to with the 'American mind', and as you have so kindly pointed out, it's not even American. Intellectual property rights are an external condition, not a mindset. If it is part of our 'mind', i.e. a psychological factor, then it logically follows that any other people exposed to the same conditions would not behave in a similar manner. I simply do not believe this to be the case, and I believe there is ample evidence to refute it.

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