How to deal with Pezhetairoi?

[Laman]

In my game as Pahlava everything is progressing well, most of Persia has been taken from the Seleukids, however while I know have economic means to field more then one tiny army, I have begun to face some real Seleucid armies. Had my first loss just outside Zadrakarta. The Seleucid army had 4 Pezhetairoi (and a bunch of other troops, practically all of them dead by now). I was unable to really damage the Pezhetairoi (when attacking one of them, the other three stood a bit away but close enough to close in and cause trouble) so I had to retreat, so for Pahlava, what is the best tactic against them? Loads of horse archers (the army that was beaten was mostly infantry (IIRC 2 Nizag Gund, 4 Eranshar Arshtbara, 2 Thanvare Payadag, 2 Shuban Fradakshana, 1 General, 1 Pahlava Shivatir, 1 Median Skirmisher Cav whose name I can't remember), my primary do have a bunch of cavalry on the other hand)? Gather lots of Generals and charge them from behind (when they are busy fighting the Nizag Gund)? Throw even more levy type infantry at them? Something else?

[NeoSpartan]

I've never playing with HA factions but soon will.

However to deal with tough Phalangites with non-phalanx units the one facing them should be in HOLD. That way they last longer and the once behind should do the killing. Once the Phalanx turns then switch the HOLD.

With Cavarly charge them from behind.

Oh and with HA, slinger, and archers try to shoot them in the back or on the right side. The Phalangites have most of thier defence point in the front and right. This is done to simulate the Phalanx weakness in rear or side attacks.

[Enguerrand de Sarnéac]

Yes, some good timed charges with your generals/cataphracts while the phalanx is anchored by some levy troops should rout them. Don't try the trick on higher level phalangites though, because mostly they should be able to stand ground without pikes. However, Pezhetairoi will rout I think. Never played as Parthians, but I think they should have a nice selection of Cataphracts or have a bodyguard of the likes. Together with some cheap levies it will do the trick (perhaps, provided you have BI, you should consider adding the Shield Wall to your levies)
Try to rout them, not kill them all in one fight.

Archers, like Horse archers or slingers (good against armour) will also help, and sometimes (if accurate) provide an alternative hammer (whereas your levies are the anvil). And, as NeoSpartan told, there are weaker sides on a phalanx; use them wisely and don't waste ammo on frontal fire.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Tie them at the front, and then get your horse archers in the back - that'll kill 12 per volley. But anyway, you will need to get assault infantry or heavy cavalry to charge in their flanks / back. Once they rout, even horse archers will be able to kill them.

[alatar]

Same tatics agaist any heavy infantry. Send your best infantry against them to hold for the longest, send your cavarly and missle troops in behind and shoot them, if you charge them don't get in the melee, but charge in, then walk out, hopefully you'll draw them to attack the cavarly, then the horses run while your infantry charges them from what is now there rear. Repeat untill rout.


Against the naked fanatics I have this down perfectly, where before they would destroy all my units, now there just sling targets.

[Watchman]

And those guys are not only fast moving, but also not dependent on formation like phalangites...

[antisocialmunky]

One of my methods of pinning a phalanx is to set a unit on defense and let the phalanx attack it. This unit usually a big unit of crap infantry or my samnite spearmen/hoplite/other good defensive infantry. This way your men don't die needlessly from charging spears, they just kinda get pushed back slowly and take fewer casualties.

The only problem is that you'll have to watch out for phalanxes turning to kill your horsies. However, if that happens, withdraw the horse and send your pin unit(not not in defense) in to hit it in the flank. Then you reform your horses and slam into the back of the phalanx when the phalanx has turn back around.

[LennStar]

Yes, thats the way. Good Unit in Defense for stopping the phalangites, and then slingers in the back.
(Numidian) skirmishers are also very good for this job (especially if they reach silver), but they need more space for movement.
Horses are also good but tend to get stuck and killed.

This also works very good in cities (very easy on big central places): Get a triangel of defenders and behind them slingers or skirmishers.

range Unit ... defender |
range unit ... defender |____________________
............................... Defender defender defender
............................... slinger slinger slinger

With this, you hold the enemy on position (remember: units in defend mode are longer fresh) and always have someone to to shoot them in the back. is what happens then :D One fresh numidian skirmisher can kill 3/4 of a Karthaginian 50-man Generalunit with this! Done this a lot the last week ;)
Don't ever waste thrown spears on fronts of heavy units! (~20 defense they get very ineffectiv)

[antisocialmunky]

The advantage of horsies even though they get killed sometimes is that they're mroe likely to get healed and they can instantly rout a unit on impact if the charge is formed correctly(the ones that result int two rows of men flying across the screen).

[alatar]

My favorite tatic with phalanx is recruit some palanx units, say 2 or 3 and have the main army behind it with a wing on each end to stop flanking, the AI 7-10 phalanx trooops will
atttack your own engulfing thm, then send the hastati on the flanks, the heavy skirmishers and cavarly destroy the units gaurding the AI's flanks and the classdial hoplites charge the phalanx flanks in a very long and thin formation.
Trouble is as often as not I've discovered I've given them no-whre to run to and they fight like lions.

[antisocialmunky]

If you have problems with men fighting to the death, you can order cavalry to attack. Their mass causes pushes the enemy units into a very small area making them really easy to kill.

[Orb]

Get some half-decent-charge-possessing mercenary non-phalangites to hit them. Preferably large units to give a bigger morale penalty. The Kluddolon were perfect for me in 0.74 (I was Haikaikan, and had earlier had a lot of trouble with the Pezhetaroi), but I don't really know what's changed there.

[Watchman]

If you have problems with men fighting to the death, you can order cavalry to attack. Their mass causes pushes the enemy units into a very small area making them really easy to kill.

Oh, just open a path for them so they stop FTD'ing and rout poperly, so your horsies and whatnots can run them dogs down at leisure.

[antisocialmunky]

Agh, and let the routing catching AI take over? I still find that surrounding a unit and letting a general's heavy cavalry push/stumble/knock them back into a small cluster is more effective if you really need to kill a unit IE SIEGE. They barely manage to make attacks and are too busy turning and moving around to do anything.