The Best Cavalry Charges?

[antisocialmunky]

I'm wondering, after playing around with Iberian Lanceari, what's the best way to charge cavalry?

Most of the time I double click charge since usually I need them there RIGHT NOW. But the problem with that is that they don't lower their lances until after they hit... which looks odd but is kinda effective still. However, after steam rolling 40 Polybian Triarii in one charge by these guys, I'm wondering if the 'form up slightly out of charge range->single-click walk' is better and if there is a better way of 'getting them there right now' using that method.

[Fondor_Yards]

I just double right click, works best. But you have to make sure there's enough distance between your cav and the target for them to build up momentum and "lower their lances", otherwise they don't get a charge bonus.

[Cadeyrn]

I generally do the single click from a decent distance in order to get them lined up properly and ensure that the lances will be lowered in time. If I'm in a hurry I usually do a double click once they're on route. In my experience the effect of a unified charge with lowered lances is worth the few extra moments most of the time, particularly if you get to do it downhill.

[mAIOR]

Yeah I'm an apologist of single click and then double click... I usually wait till they're lined up nicelly and then double click... I also found that the EB team gave little weight to horses. I changed that and now, cav is much more effective... They really open holes trough formations well, exept phalanxes but still, they're mean now...


Cheers...

[antisocialmunky]

I figured out a method. I double click charge and once I hear the charge horn, I press 'r' and they lower their lances and people go flying. In my experience, the lower lanced charges by the high teir shock cavalry can punch a hole through and rout units deployed in two ranks and maybe three.

[Cataphract_Of_The_City]

What does "r" do?

[Morte66]

What does "r" do?

Run.

[Sarcasm]

Doesn't anyone use the alt-double click?

[Dyabedes of Aphrodisias]

I right click and drag to form up the cavalry and tell them to run so they do it faster. Then I hold alt and double right click on the enemy. They lower their lances/spears for the charge, then switch to swords (if available) for the short bit of melee before pulling out.

[Intranetusa]

I right click and drag to form up the cavalry and tell them to run so they do it faster. Then I hold alt and double right click on the enemy. They lower their lances/spears for the charge, then switch to swords (if available) for the short bit of melee before pulling out.

don't swords negate the charge bonus?

[Dyabedes of Aphrodisias]

don't swords negate the charge bonus?

No, because they use their lances/spears for the charge. The thing says "charging" as well, which means they get the bonus. Using alt just means they whip out the swords after the charge, which kills better in the short melee.

[Watchman]

With the Alt-click attack they keep using their spears/lances until the charge bonus runs out and then swap to secondaries.

The RTW AI incidentally AFAIK doesn't know how to use its secondaries, which occasinally gets armoured elite cavalry slaughtered by no-armour high-skill light cav with AP weapons for the simple reason lances suck in prolonged melee against such troops... And many such cav have like 4-6 base attack with their lances and 10+ with their secondaries, the latter being obviously by far better for hacking aparts "lights"...
*sigh*

[Mi Fhein]

With the Alt-click attack they keep using their spears/lances until the charge bonus runs out and then swap to secondaries.

The RTW AI incidentally AFAIK doesn't know how to use its secondaries, which occasinally gets armoured elite cavalry slaughtered by no-armour high-skill light cav with AP weapons for the simple reason lances suck in prolonged melee against such troops... And many such cav have like 4-6 base attack with their lances and 10+ with their secondaries, the latter being obviously by far better for hacking aparts "lights"...
*sigh*

i was wondering why the AI dont use secondary weapons when in close combat. Is it just one of those things that cant be changed?

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

With the Alt-click attack they keep using their spears/lances until the charge bonus runs out and then swap to secondaries.

The RTW AI incidentally AFAIK doesn't know how to use its secondaries, which occasinally gets armoured elite cavalry slaughtered by no-armour high-skill light cav with AP weapons for the simple reason lances suck in prolonged melee against such troops... And many such cav have like 4-6 base attack with their lances and 10+ with their secondaries, the latter being obviously by far better for hacking aparts "lights"...
*sigh*

So that's why I can defeat cataphracts with horse archers in melee, if things are just perfect.

[Watchman]

Is it just one of those things that cant be changed?

Pretty much, AFAIK.

So that's why I can defeat cataphracts with horse archers in melee, if things are just perfect.

Mobbing them with those axe- or kopis-toting disposable horse-javelineers also works pretty well in my experience. Those have higher base attack values and less delay than the underhand cav spears.
Especially as those guys are dirt cheap and retrainable almost anywhere as far as cavalry goes - perfect for Red Army-esque anti-elite tactics in other words.

[Seyduna]

With the Alt-click attack they keep using their spears/lances until the charge bonus runs out and then swap to secondaries.

The RTW AI incidentally AFAIK doesn't know how to use its secondaries, which occasinally gets armoured elite cavalry slaughtered by no-armour high-skill light cav with AP weapons for the simple reason lances suck in prolonged melee against such troops... And many such cav have like 4-6 base attack with their lances and 10+ with their secondaries, the latter being obviously by far better for hacking aparts "lights"...
*sigh*

As I experienced cataphracts kill slower with their swords. I tried two custom battles with one unit of Sahigan Pahr against one unit of Hetairoi. In first try I did not make the cataphracts change their lances to swords and in second try I alt-clicked to make change them to swords after the charge. Both of them was victory but the result in the first try was much better than second try. I do not remember the exact result now.
Maybe swords are better against infantry units?

[Brightblade]

Doe putting heavy cavalry in wedge formation work at all? I seem to remember in the past using wedge formation and watching the first 3 units hit the line then the whole charge stop... dumb.

Does it work? If so whats the proper way to use it? my Molosson Agema wants to chew up infantry!

[antisocialmunky]

You use it either when you need to quickly form your cavalry into a column for manuevering or you can try and punch a hole through a VERY thin line... More or less its useless since with good shock cavalry, you can FLATTEN two lines of infantry.

[Kugutsu]

Does the number of ranks of cavalry make a difference? If you have a single line, does it cause less charge damage than a double or more line? ie does depth of formation make a difference?

[Enguerrand de Sarnéac]

I thought it was only the first two that mattered. Besides, it the minimum you can spread out (unless people die in the front ranks; the soldiers of the last rank will swap to the first) It's also the case for infantery, I think.

[antisocialmunky]

Does the number of ranks of cavalry make a difference? If you have a single line, does it cause less charge damage than a double or more line? ie does depth of formation make a difference?

You want them as long and thin as possible against as wide a target as possible(which means front or back). The main damage of the charge is done by the first two lines. If its thicker than two, then some of the units behind will spend their charges and other will not. You want as many of them to hit as possible which is why I suggest using them against the long side of a unit if you're going for a formed charge. If you hit them on the side, weird stuff can happen and your horses tend to wrap around a not be able to fling people around.

[LennStar]

You want them as long and thin as possible against as wide a target as possible(which means front or back). The main damage of the charge is done by the first two lines. If its thicker than two, then some of the units behind will spend their charges and other will not. You want as many of them to hit as possible which is why I suggest using them against the long side of a unit if you're going for a formed charge. If you hit them on the side, weird stuff can happen and your horses tend to wrap around a not be able to fling people around.

And with a long line (against smaller units) your horses go around and attack the last few from behind.
Bad idea if it's a big unit or surrounded by friends, then your horses have to retreat through the enemys line.

In RTR I loved to crush with cataphracts into the back of phalangites. Tigh Units get everything of the charge bonus. Lots of flying soldiers A timed attack also was very effective, its not as good in BE - at least with the units I have. (Attack from behind, enemy turns, attack on the now-back at the time of the turn. rightly timed they never even have time to fight back. I called it "Kavallerie-Quetsche" in german, but don't ask me for an english phrase that contains the same feeling. Not hammer and anvil, but two hammers )