Quote Originally Posted by Odin
given your view, do you have any solutions to offer?

in my opinion we are stuck in a status quo holding pattern, based on the failure to conduct the war correctly from the start. We cant go back and change the past, nor is thier any more political will to carry on in Iraq.

A pullout will happen, it just seems to me that holding onto the status quo for as long as possible is akin to the dutch boy putting his finger in the holes of the dam.

I guess I want out before it bursts because I dont see a way to improve this situation as is. For the record I dont dispute your potential outcome either, but my question is, is it better to go now or later?

i agree completely with your assement of the current situation. i feel though that it's better to for the dutch boy to keep his finger in the hole than for the city to get swamped. so i will take the trade off of hemmoraging prestige and money and goodwill now to prevent WMD's going off in major cities near where i live in the future.

as for solutions, i am in favor of what some others have posted on other topics here. as in full conscription in terms of WWII levels. if we are at war, then we should start acting like it. yes, it would be extremely costly in terms of money, lives, and popular support. if there is an american patrol on every other intersection in every iraqi city, i think the suicide attacks will stop. i think it is near criminal negligence that our political leaders, once they realized that things were not going to plan, have still not yet come up with an effective plan B. i am shocked that after all this time, the taliban is being allowed to have a resurgence in afghanistan.

if george washington had lost the american revolution, he would have been hung as a traitor to his king. if abe lincoln had lost the american civil war, he most certainly would at the very least have been impeached. if bush can't figure out a way to get this going right, he needs to be held accountable and be replaced with someone who can. if congress doesn't have the wherewithal to remove bush, then remove congress, and get a new one in. whatever the heavy, extreme costs we pay for the war now, it will be far worse if we lose it . to me it is irrelevant now, whether the war was justified or not. i have no desire for my grandchildren to wear gas masks to school.