How to make a vassal

[Jong]

Hello everyone! This is only my second post

Many people seem to have had trouble getting the AI to accept things like vassalage and ceasefire when they initiate the diplomacy, meaning they have to pay through the nose to get the AI to accept. But I think I have found a better way.

Ok here it is:

SPOILERS!!!
(these vb tags don't seem to work in preview)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It seems that the reason the AI is so unreasonable is because they hate you so much. So what I found was that gifting the AI will improve your relations with them so that they will accept a more reasonable deal.

Here's how I figured it out:

I was playing a Portuguese campaign on VH/VH using Lands to Conquer 2.1 so I'm not sure how applicable my theory is to vanilla M2TW. I was attempting to win while only directly controlling 5 provinces + holy lands + America, so I needed to make vassals.

For my first target, I picked the Moors. And beat them into a bloody pulp, completing the Reconquista in a fairly rapid assault. Got a bit delayed when the pope refused to call a crusade on Cordoba. With my objective complete, I optimistically demanded their surrender.


I tried offering them some stuff, probably lots of money or Zaragoza or Pamplona. Needless to say, they refused.

After that I finally got a crusade a crushed their main army and conquered Marrakesh. I thought "Maybe now they want to talk peace..." No such luck.

So I went out to beat up their armies some more. I almost always released prisoners to try boosting my reputation up some more. This led to some hairy situations when my army inevitably got depleted. Desert calvary are scary when you are short on calvary yourself.



Before this battle I was prepared to settle for a ceasefire, but they refused that too. After this, their army was totally annihilated and reinforcements arrived. So I didn't want to walk away without victory.

Some people have said that it is easier to get a ceasefire or vassalage from the AI when they initiate the diplomacy, but Algiers is a castle.

So I sort of cheated, using the autosave. I found that they would only agree to be my vassals if I give them Cordoba, Granada and Marrakesh.

More random experimentation revealed that gifting Pamplona and Zaragoza boosted relations to very good. And they accepted vassalage for Marrakesh! It was a balanced deal. I tried gifting gold and tribute but they would not accept it. Finally I decided to gift them Zaragoza + 5000 florins. I had built almost absolutely nothing in Zaragoza. This boosted relations to Reasonable. After that, I managed to get them to be my vassals for Marrakesh + 3000 florins a turn for 2 turns. A real bargain. Huzzah!!!



Conclusion: To get the AI to accept your deals during wartime, gift the AI your worst region and plenty of money to make them happy. Then they will be much more reasonable. The caveat is that I was using Lands to Conquer. Could someone try it out on vanilla?

P.S. You know how in Lands to Conquer the AI gets free money? Observe the following financial report.



Not that it isn't nice, but this was supposed to be a challenge!

I got 10k tribute for the next 3 turns. I mean, the Moors are supposed to be totally ruined. Marrakesh went rebel too because I demolished the town watch.

I'm no modder, but could someone please tell me how to fix this?
Maybe the money script can give money up to below the vassal threshold...

[Shahed]

I have'nt got any answers to your questions I'm afraid but just wanted to say welcome aboard and THAT is a GREAT post !

[TeutonicKnight]

Can you hand them 1000 florins at a time, repeatedly, as a gift to get them to be more favorable to you? Then ask for vassalage? I haven't tried it, but that might work. Same thing we do with the Pope to make him happy.

On the flip side, I love it when I'm starting out and my arch-nemesis demands I become their vassal. "Ten turns of you staying off my back so I can rearm and start another war? Sure thing, mate!" :)

[Alex The Great]

Well in a campaign with spain i wasnt so lucky. Im using lightmod and 1.1 and well i was kicking the frecnh asses im not insulting no1 so then they got 3 more provinces then i offered vassalage for 450000 and they accepeted they gave me 70k of tributes per turn but it was not cheap i didnt cheat

[Omisan]

I think I'll just go back to medium campaign difficulty for my next game. It's the only way to get reasonable diplomacy.

[Jong]

Can you hand them 1000 florins at a time, repeatedly, as a gift to get them to be more favorable to you? Then ask for vassalage? I haven't tried it, but that might work. Same thing we do with the Pope to make him happy.

It seems that when they hate you, they will refuse pure money bribes. Region gifts combined with money were the only thing I got them to accept.

[zstajerski]

Take their Capital, and offer it back to them for vassalage!!!

Works almost every time( sometimes you need some money though)

[sapi]

I don't think storming the capital is the best way to get a faction to like you

[Jong]

Hello again everyone! I bring an update!

I have again attempted my strategy, still using LTC, this time on Spain.

After a short but sharp struggle, I conquered Toledo and Leon. The war lasted a whole 2 turns.

I then donated Pamplona to the Spainish, which raised relations to Reasonable. Then they accepted vassalage for a mere 3000 florins a turn for 6 turns.

Previously, they refused to be my vassals for Pamplona and all my money. It was "Firmly Rejected".

As an added bonus, I got the Spanish "Boundless" wealth, which turned out to be more than 80000. Maybe next time I could go around targeting small but rich factions, crush them and take all their money

Jong: Your money or your life!
Spain: Nevaah!!!
Jong: Ok I'll give you some free land and money and you can be my vassal instead!
Spain: Ok!! signs treaty
Jong: Now according to clause 2314B you have to give me all your money. Pay up!!
Spain: .....



The only significant loss was a general, one of the brothers of Prince Affonso the Merciful, now my faction leader. He got himself blown up by a fireball during the siege of Leon.


See? At war for 2 turns only! The next turn the pope sent an order to tell me to refrain from killing them. Too late. What am I to do with all that dough?

Conclusion: It works!!

P.S. Well the money I'm getting from Spain and the Moors seems to be hanging steady at fairly reasonable levels, although it fluctuates from time to time. I get on average 12k per turns from both of them combined. I actually nearly went bankrupt because I recklessly purchased Cyprus from the Byzantines for 6000 a turn for 20 turns. That was before I attacked Spain. I had to alternate capitals until I could get my papal hit teams there to crush orthodoxy. I own the college of cardinals now

The funny thing was that my popes all died within a few turns of each other. Now the pope is Sicilian

Here's a pic of my priest training ground and my finances.

[Shahed]

GREAT stuff !

[Jong]

GREAT stuff !

Your welcome!

[Philbert]

So to state it more clearly:
- first you give them some land
- this improves your relations
- then, within a new session, you ask them to become your vassal with a reasonable offer
- once they are your vassal they mortgage their mother to make you rich.

[Specky the Mad]

not sure if you still want to know how to change the money script for LTC but the script should be located

Program Files\SEGA\Medieval II Total War\mymod\data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign in campaign_script.txt

it should be near the bottom and all you have to do is change either how much money the ai get or the threshold that they get money a combo of the two usually work nice