Your army Compositions and tactics.

[Rilder]

Well I know some people don't like discussing there "Uber secret tactics" but how does everyone form and fight there armies?

Anways heres mine, it hasn't seen to many battles but it's about be tested against the Romans and it seems rather sound it's basicly a Roman like formation in itself wearing down the enemies while fresher troups are almost always in reserve..



First line:
Skirmishers, they throw there javalins then run back to the flanks to prepare for flanking manuevers once battle is closed...

Second line: Allied infantry, cheap easy to raise troups form the first battle line, designed with the simple fact thats it better to throw local troups into battle first instead of troups that have to be shuffled from deep in the homelands.Basicly acts as my Hasati.

3rd line: Light Spearmen from the homelands, one of my favorite Lusotannan units as a unit of them saved one of my earlier battles. Basicly acts of my Princepes.

4th line: Medium Spearmen, again from the homelands, designed to take the place of the the spearment should they be broken, acts as my Triarii Kinda.

5th line: The Guardians & Calvary, this line is were my Elites and Calvary are, (Ambrako I think are my elites) Basicly if the rest of my men have routed its up to these elites to atempt to save the battle, if possible hold them long enough to organize the routed units; calvary does typical flanking moves during battle.



There now post your Armies....

[antisocialmunky]

Sometimes I use a roman checkboard deplyoment which is actually amazingly useful. Too bad its nigh impossible sometimes.

One of my favorite tactics is use Greek elite Phalangites(the yellow ones) in a super wide formation- three deep with defense off, or in a dense formation with defense off. This is useful against big units of phalangites. The first method causes the phalangites to flank their opponent. The second method causes the phalangites to split a enemy phalanx in half after which you take them out of phalanx and watch your men win. This only works against un-elite phalangites through.

No silver shields for you.

Another fun tactic is to use two slingers to isolate a unit between them so which ever way they run, they'll be pelted from behind.

[Orb]

@Rilder, is there some reason for your criminal lack of Caetrannan?

[Boyar Son]

Oh I invented that formation for myself long ago....glad to see others also use it!

[Owen the Mighty]

Although I don't have a screenshot, this is a diagram of how I deploy my immortal-slaying Makedonians!

Formation...

-----------------------S----------S
-------------------F A P P P P P P P A F
-----------------------T T T
-------------------C------G-----------C
-------------------C

P = Pikeman Infatry (usually Pezhetairoi)
A = Assualt Infantry (usually Agrianikoi Pelekephoroi)
F = Flanking Infantry (usually Thureophoroi)
S = Skirmishers (usually Thrakioi Peltastai)
T = Archers...well, it is always Toxotai.
C = Cavalry (preferably Hetairoi)
G = General

Being a phalangite army, my above formation is not a very offensive force. Instead, it is armed to the teeth, and is near unstoppable in open field battles, and when defending fortifications. Although an army of this size and with this exact unit roster is hardly ever apparent in my Makedonian campaign, it is what I base my armies around.

Tactics...

Well, I usually do the run-of-the-mill phalangite tactic: hammer and anvil. Although, with my semi-assault infantry skirmishers, my Agrianians, and my Spearmen, I can bash my way through other defensive formations with ease. So, my battle plan is as follows:

1. Deploy pikemen in a 4-man deep line, which covers most of the battlefield.
2. If I am being attacked, I set up my other units on the pikemen's flanks, to keep them guarded from cavalry, and other forms of infantry.
3. If I am attacking, I will send my skirmishers forward with the support of my Spearmen-esque infantry, and harrass the approaching force. When all of my ammunition is depleted, I send my archers forward to further break the on-coming ranks.
4. Usually, by this time, my enemy's cavalry will have tried to repel my forward units, and I counter this with a unit of Companions, or Thessalians. This usally demolishes that cavalry unit. If not, I send my forward units back to my pikemen's flanks.
5. As you may have noticed, I have a strong-sided left flank with an extra unit of cavalry. I do this to tempt my enemy into attacking my right, which I counter with a unit of fresh Spearmen and with another unit of cavalry. This (usually) completely destroys my enemy's cavalry. If they do not fall for the trap, I change the placement of these cavalry units according to which of my enemy's flanks is the weakest, so I can also make a strong cavalry charge on their weak side.
6. And the rest is simple: Let the enemy infantry march forward and hit my phalanx line, and let them fight a war of attrtion. Meanwhile, my assault and flanking infantry units hit their flanks, while my cavalry units hit their rear; therefore enevolping them in a sea of spears.......Victory!

And that's how I fight with the Sons of Alexander! (Sorry if this was a tad bit long, but I have too many tactics flowing in my head....Chess, Checkers, Warhammer, EB...)

Enjoy!

[Swebozbozboz]

how do you change how many men deep a unit deploys? I'm very curious.

[NeoSpartan]

how do you change how many men deep a unit deploys? I'm very curious.

right click, drag and let go

[Boyar Son]

- or + i forgot which was for deep and skinny

[Cataphract_Of_The_City]

Has anyone tried a historical Alexandrian formation (oblique line, hoplite/light inf flank guards, Hetairoi at the apex of the formation and all that jazz) with the correct units? I tried that a couple of times in MP and got my ass kicked. It is rather difficult to maneuver (especially if you want to attack in an angle) and the enemy even in SP is not very cooperative.

[Rilder]

@Rilder, is there some reason for your criminal lack of Caetrannan?

I Dunno, just prefer the spearmen over them.

[Thaatu]

Has anyone tried a historical Alexandrian formation (oblique line, hoplite/light inf flank guards, Hetairoi at the apex of the formation and all that jazz) with the correct units? I tried that a couple of times in MP and got my ass kicked. It is rather difficult to maneuver (especially if you want to attack in an angle) and the enemy even in SP is not very cooperative.

I try to use genuine tactics, so my Seleukid main army at the moment is:

Cavalry
General Theodorus Syriakos (Antiochus II Theos)
1 Hetairoi
1 Prodromoi
1 Galatian light cavalry

Right Flank
2 Hypaspistai
1 Pheraspidai
1 Galatian shortswordsmen

Center
2 Pantodapoi Phalangitai
1 Argyraspidai
2 Pezhetairoi

Left Flank
2 Thorakitai
1 Thureophoroi
1 Galatian Crazy Whackos

Other Light Infantry
2 Peltastai
1 Sphendonetai

The king leads his heavy cavalry from the far right flank, while the light cavalry forms the far left. The silver shields are the absolute center for the army around which everything else forms up, elites mostly on the right. The infantry flanks are in three lines in the same order as in the list. The two peltastai units support the center. It works for me.

[antisocialmunky]

Has anyone tried a historical Alexandrian formation (oblique line, hoplite/light inf flank guards, Hetairoi at the apex of the formation and all that jazz) with the correct units? I tried that a couple of times in MP and got my ass kicked. It is rather difficult to maneuver (especially if you want to attack in an angle) and the enemy even in SP is not very cooperative.

Yeah, the AI does stupid things like charge the flank of a phalanx but end up running face first into the next phalanx down the line.

[LordCurlyton]

I like strange compositions myself. Generally I like a core of factional troops backed up by regional units/mercs. As an example, the army I used to wipe out the Getai as the Maks consisted of a solid pike line (5 Pez) with 2 Theurophoroi, the Gen, 2 Thessalian Cav, a Prodromoi, and 2 Pelatsti and Sphendeteroti, backed up by 5 HA regionals from Kallatis. I found it to be extremely useful and I intend to use that setup as my northern conquest army, adjusted for size, of course.
Though I will admit that the most effective army I've had (it broke many a Ptolie siege in my Romani campaign) was an army consisting of nothing but 12 Numidian Skirmishers, 7 Numidian Skirm Cav, and a Gen. It routinely would smack down full stack elite armies of the Ptolies that would have 6-8 Elite pikes, a similar number of Galatian Heavies, plus a couple skirms and cav. And it would do so in auto-calc as well, though I only risked that after they got experience. By the end they were all triple silver or gold chevroned.

I don't get fancy with army deployment; if its a pike army I setup a standard line (pikes with support on the flanks, skirms in front, cavs setup usually behind in the center so they can get to either side easily, if its non-pike infantry I try to emulate the Roman style of deployment. Skirmisher armies are obviously set up to try and maximize the amount of encirclement.

I will say there is one formation the computer presents me with sometime that I find intriguing that I have no idea where it gets it from, yet it does work. It is set up thus:
________+Sw++Sp+________________________________+Sp++Sw+
_________+Sw++Sp+______________________________+Sp++Sw+
_______________+Sp+++P++_________________++P+++Sp+
____________________+Sp+++P++++P++++P+++Sp+
_________________________(+In++In++In+)
__(+++C+++)_________________(++G++)___________________(+++C+++)

Sw=Sword Inf
Sp=Spear Inf
P=Pikes
C= Cav
Gen=General
In=Any non-pike Infantry

I can only recall seeing this in armies with only all infantry or with the 3-5 cav units. If cav then the cav would be placed as shown, if no cav then the extra inf is almost always placed behind the main pike line (its usually swords but I have seen spears a couple times). As I said, I find it to be far more effective than I would have expected, being able to go toe-to-toe with just about any army shy of a HA army, which I shudder to contemplate going against with this army. It will generally pulverize any pike or infantry army it comes across and can generally beat melee cav-heavy armies as well (haven't seen it pop up in an eastern area to test against cats). You can also get this setup from compy if you have inf skirmishers/archers/slingers instead of 3-5 cav/other inf, in which case the skirm/range units will invariably be placed somewhere you don't want them (namely, anywhere) since they will be nigh impossible to protect. Archers can do fine, though, as long as skirm mode is removed, and peltasts are just heavy enough that they can take part in the battle line.

[L.C.Cinna]

My army compositions vary greatly. I play the Romani most of the time and I change my armies depending on whom I'll face. So, main body always stays the same.

1 general

10 units of Roman infantry (4 hastati, 4 principes, 2 triarii, or simply 10 post-marian cohorts) in 2 or 3 lines depending on how the enemy approaches.

4 cavalry 2 on each flank

There are variations, if one flank is well protected because of territorial features I ight as well have only 1 cavalry on that flank and 3 on the other.

anyway the rest of the troops vary. If i face a faction with lots of light troops like easterners with fast missile cavalry and skirmishers I use more slingers for example, when I face carthaginians I usually hire 2 units of phalangites and place them in the centre and split up my roman force on each side to flank.


Favourite thing I do:

I usually have speartroops for the flanks or 2 units of peltastai or something like that. Use the peltatsts to fire at enemy phalanx or other heavy troops. when they're empty I send them to join my cavalry. Send my cavalry to attack enemy cavalry and send in the peltastai or spearmen after the charge when my cavalry switches to swords. No enemy cavalry can win against heavy cavalry supported by spearmen.

Once the flanks are won the enemy is dead.

If the enemy has very strong cavalry on each flanks or attacks with 2 armies I look on which side I can operate with my cavalry more freely, then place 3 units of cavalry there plus the spearmen and post my other flank in a defensive manner with the cavalry plus general a bit more in the back to defend against flanking actions while my strong side attacks.

My 2 most used setups:

Standard:

_______H H H H H________ H...Heavy Roman Infantry
_CC L L H H H H H L CC____ C...Cavalry/ L...Light Infantry
________S S__________ S...Slingers
__________G_____________ G...General


Strenghtened Left Flank:

_______H H H H H________ H...Heavy Roman Infantry
CCC L L H H H H H _______ C...Cavalry/ L...Light Infantry
________S S_____L_______ S...Slingers
________________GC______ G...General

[shlin28]

Playing as Epirus the only "proper" Epirus troop that i use are the Illyrian Thorakitai and the Chaeonian guard, the rest of the army is either merc or locals. And when i was fighting the Romans, i find this strategy particularly effective:

I use Samnites in front of Illyrian Thorakitai on one side, with The General to stop flanking, whilst on the other i put my Chaenian Guard in one big line, and some random hoplites to stop flanking. Then I deploy my elephants about away from the main battle.

And when the enemy is engaging my army, the elephants sweep in from behind, and instant rout for the enemy army.

(It works on the Romans and it generates surprisingly low casualties for my proper Epirus troops)

[JeffBag]

Playing Epeiros too, and having annihalated the Romans in 5 consecutive heroic victories, before wiping them out as a faction, a large part of my army consists of hastati, since they are so numerous, supporting the rarer Pezhetairoi, Chaonion Agema, and Illyrioi Thorakitai arrayed behind them. 2 units of elephants anchor each flank, destroying enemy cavalry, while the fast moving Molosson Agema and Prodromoi flanks the enemy. The hastati keeps getting completely slaughtered by the huge stacks of elite Seleukid armies, but Roma has a 6% growth rate each time I exterminate the populace, so its nothing.

[Owen the Mighty]

I will say there is one formation the computer presents me with sometime that I find intriguing that I have no idea where it gets it from, yet it does work. It is set up thus:
________+Sw++Sp+________________________________+Sp++Sw+
_________+Sw++Sp+______________________________+Sp++Sw+
_______________+Sp+++P++_________________++P+++Sp+
____________________+Sp+++P++++P++++P+++Sp+
_________________________(+In++In++In+)
__(+++C+++)_________________(++G++)___________________(+++C+++)

Sw=Sword Inf
Sp=Spear Inf
P=Pikes
C= Cav
Gen=General
In=Any non-pike Infantry

Hmmm... that's interesting, although I think I would use a tad bit more pikemen to strengthen my centre....but with strong spearmen...who knows...

Cool, I've never seen this formation before. (yet another reason why EB is SO much better than Vanilla!)

[LordCurlyton]

Like I said, its very effective. If they choose to attack the center they are just asking to be slaughtered as they have walked (ran probably) right into an encirclement. Attack either flank and the formation lets you maneuver to counter, since it is HIGHLY unlikely that an enemy force can break a flank in time (maul it maybe, but not break). Even the center pikes can be tactically redeployed for maximum effect. The only thing this army really fears would be a massive HA army, and even then there better be some sort of finishing cav/infantry to ensure a rout. MAYBE a bunch of elite Cats could break the center pikes, but the better damn well do that b/c they will get SLAUGHTERED if they don't.
EDIT: In case anyone cares, the grouping I got it most with was constituted thusly
Spears = Scortamareva, except for 2 Scutarii who always were placed behind the left/right forward pikes
Swords = Originally 3 Samnite Milites and 1 Golberi Cuoras, after camaigning and eventually wearing out the cav and milites it became all Golberi Cuoras (though the Milites lasted hella long)
Pikes = Mishtophoroi Pezheteraoi, who are worth every Mnai you spend on them
Cav = Lance Eporus (or however you spell Gallic light cav), + Gen

It was in my Romani campaign, and I know I got it a couple times as Qart Hadast, with Lucanian Spearmen and Libyans/more Scutarii replacing the Scortamarevas, and generally nice solid blocks of Samnites or Iberian Assaults. I still used the Mercenary Pikes, if only because I had the Carthage Elite Pikes in a different army.

[NeoSpartan]

I have 2 main battle formations:
The follwing is type I:



Center Line holds the enemy's center. It is composed of medium/heavy swordsmen and spearmen. All usually on HOLD, depending on the enemy.

-Behind the center line are other medium/heavy infantry. Thier role is to penetrate the gaps in the AI center line, or to plug holes in my line. Due to the flexible nature of Gaellic fighting this is a must.

-Flankers are composed of the Gaestrae with Cavalry support. However, before any flanking can be done, I usually engage and destroy the AI's flanking troops with the Gaestrae+Cavarly team.

I don't like to field a lot of slinger UNLESS the AI is fielding a lot of them or I am facing HA. I think the slingers are a bit too strong OR a bit to cheap and fast to construct of the amount of killing they do.

Here it is again advancing.


What I don't like about is that it is SO LONG! Well, the large number of Gaellic units are to blame here.

I'll send clips of my 2nd most common used Gaellic battle formation.

[Laman]

Well one that I like to use with Bactria (and slightly altered with Pahlava for one the Pahlava variant uses more horsies (including horse archers)). Unfortunately it is only the most useful against poorly armored units, unsure how well it would be able to handle one of the Seleukid elite stacks.

It looks something like this:

pf : pantodapoi phalangitai
ea: eranshar arshtbara
tp: thanvare payadag
sc: skirmishing cav
gc: generals cav
mc: median medium cav or similar if I have gotten my hands on them

---sc
ea sc
ea ea
pf tp mc
pf tp gc
pf tp
ea ea
ea sc
---sc

I mostly just let the archer shoot the enemy to pieces. If needed i send the skirmisher cav to annoy the enemy. Works rather good against most armies I fight in the east.

[Ower]

In my Pahlava campain, the heart of my army are HA 2-3 unist and 1-2 FA + suport of some Persian/Mardian Archers :2-5 units, + 2-5 units of slingers. I dont know if it's just me, but my slingers are eficient, but if you compare man/kills then my slauther instruments are the HA, and rout instrument Archers whit fire. The reason is thet my AI, always tryes to face my slingers whit the phalanx, so they are more like a bait for the phalanx, while my HA and Archers, shoot or burn them from the rear, and to kill the enemz general.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Here is a Polybian Legion of mine deployed:

It is the only era where my army is nearly deployed the way I want it at the start. I just have to move Triarii and Velites. I arrange them Velites, Hastati, Pricepes, Triarii, missiles, cavalry. As soon as the battle begins and I see the enemy's movement I move the cavalry to one or both flanks. If I'm expecting cavalry or a harder fight, I'll line them up in HPT lines rather than a grid. (Camilian is similar but I have to deploy it myself.)

Here is an Imperial Legion of mine:

Since I'm fighting phalanxes, I lined up in a single line. If the enemy is smaller or more compact, I line up in two rows of five legionaries with the spearmen guarding the flanks of the second line. (I'm trying to replace all cavalry and missile allies with avxilia, but there is no cavalry avxilia in Persia.)

[NeoSpartan]

Dang that a load of Celtic clinger and archers u got there man.

Any particular reason why????

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Dang that a load of Celtic clinger and archers u got there man.

Any particular reason why????

The slingers don't do a whole lot. (Many of my armies had eastern slingers which lacked the AP in 080.) And the archers, I got used to having four groups of 120 or 160 and when I got groups of 242 archers, I kept the same number of units.

There is a real anti-slinger ideal going around, but I use them. (Never more than 4 in an army though.)

Plus, now I'm fighting mostly Parthia. And they have archers, horse archers, and cataphracts (and randomly an army made entirely out of pantodapoi phalanxes). Their archers and horse archers always target my archers once in range and their cataphracts are impervious to any damage. (I had all 968 archers shoot all at once at a group of cataphracts and one horseman died.)

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

OK, here comes mighty Macedon - I just love those battle diagrams:




YES, I KNOW THAT R:TW BATTLES ARE LIMITED TO 20 UNITS; NOT 21! But I think the best approach to figure out the optimum battle deployment is first to think of what would be the best, and not what is possible. Then we can easily choose what unit we can leave at home without any major disadvantage.

Explanation of deployment:
The first line consists of Peltastai, usually Thracians. Next comes the main battle line, made up of four units of Pezhetairoi in the center, each 8 rows deep, guarded on the flanks by Thureophoroi. Next comes the reserve: Two units of pezhetairoi, usually weakened ones from previous battles; on the sides (dark blue with x-mark) some heavy assault infantry, usually Royal Guard; and in light blue, Agrianian assault troops. The fourth line is usually made up of two units of archers. At the rear end is the cavalry: On the flanks Prodromoi, usually Thracians again. Then, on the right wing, Thessalian nobility, and on the left wing, the Basileos or Strategos himself, accompanied with an additional unit of Hetairoi.

If confronted with a lot of archers, we should leave the skirmishers at home - they only take casualties before they could kill anybody and consequently rout without the possibility of prooving any worth of themselves.

Most likely, we do without one cavalry unit, either Thessalians or Hetairoi, because in most cases, three really heavy cavalry units will be enough.

The third possibility would be to leave one assault unit at home, most likely the Royal Guard, as theese don't grow on trees, and won't be very common in any army.

Tactical flexibility:
Thraikioi Peltastai can easily retreat after hurling their javelins, regroup behind the second line, and give additional flanking protection, as they are fairly good in melee too.

The first battle line is the main fighting force, doing most of the defensive work, also called the anvil. The Thureophoroi protect the flanks of the phalanx from enemy assaults.

The second battle line is really flexible. The two additional Pezhetairoi can easily extend the rather short main battle line, if the Strategos notices great amounts of enemy troops on one side. The battle line would be extended and formed like a bow then. The Agrianians and Pheraspidai can easily hurl their spears above the head of the main battle line, and afterwards, move to the flanks to attack the enemy there.

If the third line consists of Cretans as archers, these could be used in pitched battles to aide their comrades at the front, almost like the Thracian skirmishers.

The Prodromoi Cavalry plays a very important role, guarding the flanks, fending of enemy cavalry, and fighting enemy skirmishers or archers that were stupid enough to expose themselves on the field.

In an ideal battle, the heavy cavalry doesn't even go into action, because all the important work was already done by their comrades. But in most cases, their action is required to do some key maneuvers, as for example killing enemy bodyguard cavalry, or charging the strongest enemy phalanxes from the backside.

That's all. With these tactics, you can win against almost all kind of enemy armies. In my personal opinion, the tactical flexibility is unmatched.

[Morte66]

I make no particular attempt to play historically, though it happens at times.

The details change from faction to faction, but apart from pure cavalry stuff it's: stoppers in the middle, killers on the flanks, pin 'em and skin 'em.

Stoppers can be phalanxes or spearmen or heavy sword and shield types, whatever you've got. Their job is to fix the enemy's strong and dangerous side and avoid taking casulaties.

Killers are cavalry, slingers, close combat infantry etc. They kill the enemy, hitting them on their weak sides. They manoeuvre a lot more.

I like to have fast moving defensive troops (e.g. lighter spearmen) as reserves, since they can move quickly into position and then hold whatever's causing the problem. Heavy cavalry are also good reserves, since anything that has surprised you ought to either (a) be fast and therefore light or (b) have exposed its flanks by doing so.

If the enemy have lots of cavalry, spearmen may be redefined as killers and archers/slingers as bait. [There is a fine line between getting your slingers annihilated and offering bait. Just never show more bait than you have traps...]

I don't use javelin skirmishers, unless I need to kill elephants or whatever. Regular infantry can throw javelins just as well and fight a lot better. Slingers and archers carry way more ammo.

I will generally start with a formation like this... Heaviest stoppers in the middle, stretched thin for maximum frontage (I aim to destroy the enemy before they break). Reserves behind each end of the stoppers, so they can get anywhere quickly. Archers firing over one end of that line. Slingers tight on the ends for direct fire, ready to dart forward to flank or pull behind for safety. Cavalry out wide, getting lighter as you move out. Missile cavalry widest. General at the back.

Once the battle starts... Try to kill their more dangerous missile troops with cavalry before anything else happens. Then return the cavalry to the line and wait for flanking opportunities. Push missile cavalry very wide. Let the enemy come onto my stoppers, or take my stoppers to them. Once they're pinned, start flanking.

From there, no plan survives contact with the enemy. Adapt. Keep a secure shape (if thsi means half your line isn't fighting, fine) and look for chances to gain the initiative. Once you've got control of the battle, you can break your line and have idle stoppers act independently.

[NeoSpartan]

The slingers don't do a whole lot. (Many of my armies had eastern slingers which lacked the AP in 080.) And the archers, I got used to having four groups of 120 or 160 and when I got groups of 242 archers, I kept the same number of units.

There is a real anti-slinger ideal going around, but I use them. (Never more than 4 in an army though.)

Plus, now I'm fighting mostly Parthia. And they have archers, horse archers, and cataphracts (and randomly an army made entirely out of pantodapoi phalanxes). Their archers and horse archers always target my archers once in range and their cataphracts are impervious to any damage. (I had all 968 archers shoot all at once at a group of cataphracts and one horseman died.)

Well to be honest I like the ass kicking that the Slingers do. BUT since I am playing VH/M with the Aedui, I have too limit myslef in thier usage. As well as in the usage of terrian advantage. (Also, the AI really can't manage fatige and these Celtic slinger with thier long range make the AI run around too much. Eventhough I changed that, I don't feel like re-starting another campain with the Aedui). I should have played VH/H or H/H to dely the Roman advance for a few years. M is just too easy.

I am defetily with you on the usage of many Archers against Parthia and the like. U know what, u should bring in Celtic slinger from Gaul and have them shoot the Catapharcts.

[Orb]

My old Hayk 0.74 army composition in Asia Minor vs. KH:

2 x General
6 x Ayrudzi Netadzik (Armenian horse archers)
3 x Nhakararakan Aspet (Armenian cataphracts)
4-7 Galatian mercenary infantry (preferably Kluddolon, with some Enoci Curoas)

The fast, completely expendable Galatians would charge and pin one flank of the KH, while the Cats would then flank it, usually resulting in it breaking almost immediately. This turned into a chain rout, usually, with the HAs suppressing any damage, while slowly nailing the enemy general. In one battle I got 3,000 kills to 30, and after an enormous campaign, I finally defeated all the Hellenes of Asia Minor then naval-raped the Koinon heartland, before *really* turning on the Ptolemies and Seleucids.

When I was finally able to regroup against the damn Ptolemies, I ended up with
2 x Generals
6 x Zrahakir Netadzik (Armenian Cataphract Archers)
2 x Nhakararakan Aspet (Armenian Cataphracts)
10 x Merc Infantry

These basically functioned as my expensive version of my old army. Mercs pin, Cats flank and rout, Cat archers both prevent interception and can rout the rest of the line.

[Owen the Mighty]

Has anyone tried to use the "3 maniple line" formation for the Romans? (Where the front line fights for awhile, then falls back behind the third line of infantry, and then the second line takes on the role of the front line, and so on and so forth) I've seen the checkboard formation, but this maniple system seems hard to pull of the on the field. Just wondering if anyone has ever actually used it in battle...

[Cataphract_Of_The_City]

There was someone who did it although I remember him saying that he got more casualties than normal, which can be expected since the retreating units turn their backs.

When I use the manipular formation I let the enemy charge through the maniples. The ones who attack the second line through the gaps let a morale penalty for having enemies at their backs. I also leave enough distance between the lines to be able to flank any unit engaging a principes with my triarii. They rout fairly quickly which leaves the principes free to flank the enemy fighting the hastati, which at this time is usually hit on the back by my victorious cavalry. The hastati get a bigger beating but it is most of times low enough to not have to combine units after a big battle. 3 battles would be the limit for this I think.

@Centurio Nixalsverdrus

Why do you keep your reserve directing behing the first line? I can understand having a couple of units to plug gaps there but by putting your assault troops there increases the time they will have to move around the flank and assault the enemy. I never do that. I split my reserve (except gap-pluggers) between my flanks, putting them either in an oblique (away from the enemy) or column (fast to maneuver) formation. I usually split my cav (or reinforce one side) and to protect them I keep them right behind the two flank forces, read to either outflank enemy flankers or maneuver to attack the enemy flank.