Your army Compositions and tactics.

[quackingduck]

so far i fight my battles like so:

1) deploy the most sensible front line (pikemen in middle, assault inf on side or w/e)

2) depoy missle units and calvary in a sensible way behind front line

3) wait until front line has engaged enemy

4) flank

5) make sure to kill the enemy general and chase down all fleeing enemies

[runes]

most people form their front lines with weaker troops, i do the opposite. i make my front line my best infantry (so they get big kills and lots of chevrons) with the hopes that they will hold while i use supporting troops to flank. i rely heavily on skirms/slingers to pester flanks while lighter/quick/good charge infantry charges the lines that my solid roman line is holding. i do alot of cycling of troops, where i send units with casualties and experience back to rome to train and send in fresh troops. lots of movement.

my cavalry is more of distraction as i rely on my solid front line, and my general who rides with another unit does alot of fighting.





1) optimal army



1- pedites extraordinarii

2- lesser roman infantry, usually leftover principes. sometimes green extraordinarii.

these provide forward support if the momentum is lost and (1) wavers, and the unit on the flank moves outwards while the inner most moves up.

or they move in to form a longer main battle line if need be

or, they simply move up and out to creat3 a solid flanking move

3- triarii or mercs. used as spear line, move forward to provide support as line 1 falls back in case of heavy cav charge. held in reserve if not needed.

4- these are generally fast assault infantry, usually celtic swordsman. something with a solid charge i can flank or gain the rear with and do the old "hammer and anvil"

5- skirmishers. usually slingers (ascensii, celtic slingers etc)

once battle is engaged they sweep down and out to pelt from the flanks.

6- equites or mercs, the left most is more of a diversion. and is sometimes a double stack of barbarian light cavalry.

7- general unit acompanied by cavalry (good for distractions so i can charge the general freely)


similarly stack 2 is my more "assault" army and is very similar, where 2 is usually green troops/mercs who either umbrella out to support or flank or simply create the second line if 1 falls.

[runes]

also note that i group my units in to twos. i find this the most flexible. as on the sort of micro fronts one can move while the other fights/etc.

[Antiochus Eupator]

My battle formation:

1st line: Phalangites and peltast on the flanks

2nd line: flexible swordsmen or spearmen as reserves or outflanking forces.

3rd line: archers and slingers

4th line: General unit and cavalry


My tactic: I first send my cavalry and peltast toward the enemy cavalry and as soon as the enemy cavalry get in range i pull my cavalry outand let th peltast take care fo the enemy cavary and while my phlangites hold the enemy I send my reserves and cavalry to outflank them and that usually wins the battle but heres the outline to better understand it:

P=Phalngite (6 phalangite)
R=Reserves ( 2 or 3 reserves)
S=Peltast ( 2 peltast)
A=Archers ( 1 or 2 archers)
C=Cavalry (2 cavalry)
G=General
ss pppppppppppppppp ss
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
AA
C G C

I use this tactic to quickly outflank my enemy so the battle is not long and drawn out.

[Renegen]

I'm playing as the Getai and right now I'm fighting Celts, Thracians and Gauls.

My formation is simple but very good.

I have about:
6-7 Dacian Falx Infantry
6-7 Costobocii Axemen
Some archers, 2-4
Some Dacian Phalanx in the middle (optional)
Skirmishers(really optional, I don't use them)


The tactic is this, put the axemen in the first row of melee to act as shields and throw the Falx Infantry charging at the busy enemy. Use Phalanx in the middle of your army to act as a solid defensive wall to your formation, to kill even faster and against cavalry.

The formation looks like a 2 row rome legion formation.

......----.....----.....----.....---------------.....----.....----.....----......
......----.....----.....----.....---------------.....----.....----.....----......
................................................................................................
................................................................................................
.----.....----.....----.....----...---------....----.....----.....----.....----.
.----.....----.....----.....----...---------....----.....----.....----.....----.
Also bring 1-2 units of heavy cavalry for attacking archers or fleeing units.

row 1: Axemen, or later on, heavily armored units.
Phalanx

row 2: Falx Infantry, who have low armor but good charging attack(and armor piercing)
Archers, they use fire arrows most of the time.


The formation would work equally well against a phalanx army, although the tactics would change. Horse archers? I dunno.

[Cheexsta]

A massive defeat (on VH/VH) prompted me to change my Romani tactics somewhat. I typically deployed in a three-line infantry formation, plus Accensi and Leves at the front (so 4-5 lines, really) and cavalry on the flanks. I found all too often that the Carthaginian enemies I was facing were decimating my infantry with their javelins before charging in and ripping me to pieces. So Cn. Cornelius Scipio Asina sailed back to Iberia with a fresh army and Consular imperium to try out a new tactic...and it worked.

              [----Skirmishers][Skirmishers----]
                   [Alae]   [Hastati]   [Alae]
                   [Alae]  [Principes]  [Alae]
    [Alae Cavalry]     [Triarii][Rorarii]     [Roman Cavalry]
                           [General]

The skirmisher line was placed in a long, loose formation, with Guard Mode and Fire At Will on but Skirmish mode off. The enemy charged my skirmishers and got bogged down in combat with them before my front line of infantry charged through the skirmisher formation. The skirmishers fell back once the infantry were engaged and threw the last of their javelins at the enemies.

In the end, the heavy infantry was largely unhurt but my skirmishers and cavalry took quite a hit. No biggy - those are easy to find, and by replacing the skirmishers with better variants (Peltastai come to mind) they should sustain fewer casualties.

[dominique]

I tried this tactic against a gaul army with few skirmishers and it worked like a charm.

It's a variation of the same tactic that Epaminondas used at Leuctra.

I build a very strong left with squary hastatii (preferably Samnites) formations (8+ ranks deep), followed by Rorarii in a similar shape. The center is held by the principes (4-5 ranks deep) and the right by a shallow triarii formation (3 ranks).

So, when all the javelins are exchanged and the cavalery is fighting in the flanks, I order an Hastatii advance and I pull back my triarii. The old guys old their own while retreating and the ennemy line squirm and deform trying to adapt to the front.

When the ennemy line is all weird, I rush my Rorarii in the holes on the left. The ennemy line breaks at that time, the left flank is swarmed, panicks and run. Then I swing my left on the right like a mouse trap and bang!

I use what is left of my cavalry to charge the pockets and run over the routers.

It only works against an army with heavy infantry. I tried it against a Carthaginian army with a shit load of skirmishers and I got heavy losses.

I like Scipio's strategy, It's a V with the triarii in the bottom. However, the ennemy almost always attack my flankers on the right. So I swing the left on the right and I try to double enveloppe them.

[runes]

LI= light infnatry, usually
HI = heavier infantry
sk= skirmishers
S= spears
Ca= cavalry
f= generally native troops, cheap/fast troops/whatever i can afford with the rest of my cash. i try to make them falxmen though since they are cheap and awesome.

anyway, i've been experimenting with this as a formation, it's still rather defensive and vulnerable to missile attack, but i'm reforming it.

i move the whole column forwards, and generally shift up and right, but this is the basic idea.

i built it around a manipular idea of anchoring my line infantry, and keeping my spears and skirmishers mobile.


the red arrows shows what areas are covered.

the light infantry forms the middle of the line- sort of as a trap, but it also optimizes my placement of my spear and regular infantry.

if i face a cavalry charge aimed at my middle i can send my spears from the back ranks up to meet the flanks of the engaged cavalry, i generally side on taking a few casualties.

if he attacks my front flanks, or divides i can again send my spears forward and hit the sides/rear.

here, the skirmishers protect the flanks and rear of my spears from counter attack.




in case of a wide sweeping flanking manouvre my spears can pull down and to the side while my skirmishers pull into the safety of the group.

if my spears are not fast enough, i bank on my skirmishers being temporarily engaged while the spearmen pull up. i rely heavily on my skirmishers as screening and miring enemy cavalry while appropriate units can get there.

while my line infantry engages in wide open lines, in an attempt to draw out units and create spaces i send my falx forward and around to the rear/flanks.

they are great for this due to speed/good weapon.



they are also great if there is cavalry engaged, i've had alot of luck cutting down cavalry with the falxes.









kind of different approach to the maniple, with the spears being the most mobile and most important, but it's worked pretty well so far.

[CirdanDharix]

My favourite tactic is the classic double envelopment. I deploy a front line of skirmishers, followed by a main battle line with the best troops on the flanks, in a thick formation, and the lightest troops in the centre, more spread out. The cavalry is as far on the flanks as possible, against the edge of the map. A few elite units and the general stand in reserve; archers are deployed in support behind the line, slingers are in support or in ambush. The skirmishers harass and withdraw, and when contact is made, the enemy foot are channeled into the weak centre, while my cavalry deals with the enmy cavalry. My centre I allow to be driven back. When my soldiers are victorious on the flanks, I have them outflank the enemy centre, while shoring mine up with the reserves. If my cavalry is still sufficiently strong, I have them attack the enemy rear. If the enemy is strogner on one flank than on the other, I usually end up rolling up the enemy line rather than doing the full double envelopment.

[Renegen]

I'm playing right now as Sab'yn, here's some new stories! I had an army which achieved some amazing battles before being crushed to death by a ptolemic phalanx heavy army.

It consisted of 3 lines.
The first line had 3 archer-spearmen
the second line had 4 light arabian infantry in skirmish mode
the third line had 6 native egyptian infantry
I also had about 4-5 stacks of Ethiopian light infantry on the flanks or reserves.
Then I had 1 cavalry unit and my general.

It performed really well, mostly on the strength of the ability of having such a deep line. If any unit was engaged it could be assisted by 1 other friend from the flanks. When everyone was engaged it was a matter of dividing and conquering. I would send the cavalry to rout enemies.


But a flaw was found, my infantry was not heavy enough and had morale problems. I was constantly against Galatian heavy infantry, medium and elite phalanx,Thureophoroi, peltasts, the very best troops.


I'm working on a new strategy. what's for sure is that formation are overrated.(or I don't understand them heh). I might soon build a perfect Sab'yn army to take on Ptolemoi and their mega empire.

[Hound of Ulster]

With the Pahlavi...
all cavalry. Not full-stacked, but large enough to take out most infantry forces.
1. have light horse archers bombard line.
2. heavy cav cataphracts and generals charge.
3. repeat until enemy is destroyed.

With the KH...
mixed force. No cavalry so far, but will mix in some Prodiomoi when they become available. Armies right know are mostly infantry, with Classical Hoplities prefered along with Spartans.
1. have archers bombard enemy line. If skirmishers and peltasts present use them as well.
2. Once missile units exhaust ammo, charge with all infantry, including missile troops. Try to to get missile troops in rear of enemy formation.
3. keep pressure on until enemy breaks. it may take awhile.

With Casse...
All infantry, but with lots of generals if possible. Mostly heavy infantry, naked spearman prefered along with heavy swordsman. As all Celtic units have javelins, archers and skirmishers not needed.
1. Throw everybody into battle. Javelin duel will ensue if fighting other Celtic factions.
2. keep pressure on.
3. When enemy line breaks, pursue routing enemies with generals.

With Adverni...
see Casse, except with more cavalry.

[Ibrahim]

In A.Seleukeia (this may be a bore and way too long):



AC-Pr Th P-P-P-P-P-P-Arg-Hyp-Tba H-G
Th Tox-Tox Ph H
EKI


see legend at the bottom.

the pezhetairoi+ argyraspists are always grouped into single line so as to present a wall of pikes 77 files wide (the unit scale is large, and the phalangites are in square ~11x11 wide, & the rear rank has 10 men only), and advance in a straight line or in echelon with the left end refused.

the square formation is a compramise Between manuevrebility, power, and safe flanks. the guard are to the right with the pheraspidai to the rear as a reserve or to go behind the nearby Hetairoi to tangle opposing cavalry( anyone seen Blitzkrieg?never mind). same for the rearward thorakitai on the left. the toxotai are to the rear to shoot away at the enemy as they close, or to at least to break the up or cause a stupid move from them. the thorakitai and the argyraspid thorakitai are flank protectors or the ones who typically flank, and are never sent on campaign without at least 3 bronze chevrons, bronze weapons and shield, due to the possibility of overly violent and hard fighting there ( one unit of thorakitai with 3 cheves bronze, silver arms held off 600 enemy(levies) for 10 minute losing only 10 out of 78, while killing 100 of them ). the elephant is there in the reserves to trample the enemy in case of failure in the line, or to give the enemy skirmishers something to munch on, in case of imminent defeat (the laugh was because that never happens). the left flank cavalry is to screen or to hold the left; the right is to deliver the decisive charge(1 unit of Hetairoi chalked up 150 men in 1 min flat!), and punch a gap in the enemy lines, and send the enemy routing, usually to the strongest enemy unit, or if badly outnumbered, the weakest large concentration of units. for anti-Harmata warfare I order the bold lettered regiments to stop thier advance, the normal lettered ones to stop when the sides of their front ranks are next to the points of the bold lettered one's pikes, and let the enemy ride through under arrow fire( Alexander's Moustrap):

P P P Arg
P P P

these tactics are a sample of what there is known; creativity and intiative are preferred to sticking to the book.modifying the layout if necessary is also recommended. it is also important to have a trailing army with siege weapons and auxiliary cavalry, infantry, or other.(yes 2 stacks for a campaign, one of 20 other of 10 units.)

assesement of nearby early enemies(how to deal with using above army):

1-Pontos:

poor rabble of troops of eastern types; good archers and heavy cavalry, but poor Heavy infantry and worse special units (harmata drepanophora). use above described tactics and casualties will be low for you (not to exceed 5%vs. best armies 1 full stack)

2-Ptolemaioi:

similar units to AS;their phlangitai are dangerous, as are thier Celtic Klerouchikoi, but little cavalry is used by them comparatively: flanking and double envolpement, plus liberal use of elephants, will bring them to heal, though casualties are expected to exceed overall 10-20%, 50% plus for the flanking infantry, and 80% for the cavalry due to pikesturning round from rear attack ( about 40% if they don't)

3-Hayasdan:

similar to pontos, though infantry is slightly better; cavalry dangerous and stubborn, and much use is made of horse archers in the north near the steppes; modify army so as to have more cavalry or flankers (type is left to one's discretion), then go your merry way! casualties not to exceed 5-15% as well.

4-Makedonia:
similar to the AS, more so than the Ptolemaioi; flanking will crush them too, but the casualties are lower, due to the poor quality of thier levy phalangitai used excessivly by the Makedonioi, especially early on. Casualties not to be over 20%, done properly.

5-Baktria:

has a flexible list of Kataphraktoi units and armoured Horse archers, plus units familiar to the Diadochoi kingdoms, such as the Pezhetairoi. using the Hetairoi to crush the weak cavalry, or run behind the pikes, the enmy cavalry can be impaled; the archers are good indian longbowmen, counter with Toxotai, thorakitai/thureophoroi with prodromoi support. the phalangitai can be defeated by superior training and Elephant use in weak areas or where the enmy Phalanggoi have lost cohesion and become squeezed into a small area.
Casualties: low(usually run over by mercenaries before they can muster.)

6-Pahlava:

the most dangerous foe by far: excellent Horse archers, long range and subpub archers, and terrifying heavy cavalry, but poor infantry: for them try to get Subeshi archers if possible, other wise blockade them in cities and towns and starve them out casualties in open battle will never be under 15%; cannon fodder in form of mercenary army is recommended.

THE END

P=pezhetairoi
H=hetairoi/ hellenikoi Kataphraktoi
Pr=prodromoi
Ph=pheraspidai
Hyp=hypaspist
Th=thorakitai/thureophoroi
Arg=argyraspids
EKI=elephantes Kataphraktoi indikoi
Tox=syrian archers
AC=auxiliary cav.(if any)
Tba=thorakitai basilikou agemata
G=general

[Ayce]

My tactic for complete Getic Empire armies:

A line of loose formation archers in front set to flame ammo (I usually have significant numbers of them in my army), they may also include slingers.

That's unless I use phalanxes (who stand in front), in which case I group my archers on one of my flanks.

Melee cavalry on the left flank (charging laterally or from the rear).

Horsearchers on the right flank (my weakest usually, they deplete their forces there)

Light infantry and skirmishers right behind archers/phalanxes.

Shock troops and heavy infantry at about the same position.

Light inf attack one one side (usually the right), and shock troops charge on the other (usually left to help cavalry against polearm and spear weapons)

Archers are usually Komatai Toxotai, Komatai Agrinai and Schytian Archers (soon to get Bosphoran)

Phalanxes are either Light or Heavy Dacian Phalanxes - they perform well out of phalanx formation too and seem to take on most hellenic phalanxes very easily)

Melee cavalry is represented by the Daoi, Tarabostes, Thracian Medium Cavalry and Thessalian Heavy Cav (only mercenaries)

Horsearchers are the usual Getikoi Hippotoxotai, though Schytians are sometimes employed. (no Ktistai yet)

Light infantry varies wildly (Komatai, K Epilektoi, Peltasts, Galatians, Spearmen of various cultures)

Shockers are Falxmen, Galatian Wild Men for now. Soon to have Romfea men and Scordisci.

I severely underuse Kostoboks and Mezenai, though they'd go to Skirmisher and Horsearcher (I'm not nuts) groups respectively.

[Maion Maroneios]

Well, I play now as the Makedonai so it is only natural I would use Alexandrian army tactics The thing is, I divide my armies according to their role in combat. My economy is quite strong now, so I can basically afford any army of my likeness. My basic Successor army is quite simple in terms of composition and tactics, just good ol' hammer an' anvil tactics My armies tend to look like this:

-----------S----------S--------------
-------F1-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-F1----------
----F2----M----M-----M----F2
----C2-C1---------------C1-G--------

S (Skirmishers): They harass the enemy before the clash and fall back if any enemy units pursuits them.
F1 (Infantry, preferably sowrdsmen): They protect my army's flanks and shower the enemy with javelins, if they have.
F2 (Infantry, preferably spearmen): They have basically two roles. One is to aid the first flanking soldiers (F1) in case of need and the second is to protect my cavalry against enemy flankers.
P (Phalangites): My army's backbone. They form the solid wall of spears that keeps the enemy at bay and also push, if needed be.
M (Missiles): They shower the oncoming or/and fleeing enemy. I'm especially fond of slingers, they tend to crush the enemy's backs
C2 (Light cavalry): Those guys mostly shower the enemy if they have jvelins, or just sweep the battlefield from fleeing enemy soldiers.
C1 (Heavy cavalry): I think you know what those guys do Flanking, aiding my main line and hitting the enemy backs, as well as pursuing fleeing enemies. They are my army's flower.
G (General): Not much to say here.

I also have skirmishing armies which follow my main army when I'm out conquering. Those armies are real nasty for the enemy, as they are composed of fast-moving infantry and javelin cavalry which gives me the needed distraction.

[carthage_supreme]

Lol, wow you guys im surprised that we have some real tacticians here.


Playing carthage i usually have my formations set up like this

Enemies
_____________________ ____________________

HI
----------------------------------------------------

Fi FI
__________ _________

SC SC
--------- ------------ HI: Heavy infantry
Fi: Flanking infantry
SC: Support cavlary


First thing i do is let the heavy infantry engage the enemys front line. Whilst the Heavy infantry is in full engagement i send the Flanking infantry (which usually consists of skirmishers and elite troops) to support the the main line. After sending in the FI, I send the SC to kill all enemy skirmishers( if there is any) and to smash into the enemys rear.

[LordCurlyton]

The following illustration explains my default Aedui tactics:

Even after all this time, this still remains the best tactic EVAR!!

[carthage_supreme]

Even after all this time, this still remains the best tactic EVAR!!

Despite the crudeness and lack of finesse in it. It could still be devastating with the right amount of wildmen and the right circumstances. I employed a similar tactic having only half a stack against a full stack of romans , they just ran like no tommorow over the bridge with my little savage celts right on there tail.

[Olaf The Great]

I always have these battle plans, but the enemy always ignores my phalanxes and goes for the reserves. It ends up being a simple hammer and anvil strategy (hvy inf+lancers, pref phalanxes but any infantry work)

[konny]

"No plan ever has survived first contact with the enemy" - Moltke

The AI has a talent to screw up any battle plan, from the simplest to the finest, by its stupid running around.

[General Appo]

I fully agree. I can sometimes spend 5 minutes positioning my troops so that my genius plan will work, only to have it screwed up by the AI refusing to comply and just running around. Like I remember reading somewhere: "You can´t beat a guy at a game if he´s to stupid to follow the rules"

[NEver]

Stupid? Or incredibly devious?

I want you all to ask yourselves that

[Ymarsakar]

The most effective way to retreat my troops that I found was to first send in reinforcements to tie up the enemy my unit is fighting. Then withdraw the unit by making it run away from the enemy front. Because the enemy is now busy fighting my new fresh troops scattered about, there is less blows hitting the troops now retreating. One of the benefits of having troops scattered about a wide frontage.

As for blitzing enemies, I have found that if you send reinforcements of about 4 units to battle an exhausted enemy that has already taken around 50% casualties, they will automatically break due to the change in battle odds. This is different than if you had sent those 4 in earlier, since disciplined units can regain lost morale at a rate high enough that they can avoid breaking for some time, unless you inflict massive casualties on them in a short time.

The easier way to do it is to use many naked fanatics, since their fear ability is just too much for militia and low morale/experienced units to handle.

I've noticed that if I don't pay attention to which unit I am attacking or surrounding, my battles tend to take a lot longer than if I had located the unit that has taken casualties and has wavering or shaken and use my cavalry against them. Even if you just use fresh troops and make them run up and into that unit's line, they can still break from the number of hits your new unit does on them.

The reason why is because normally when you send an infantry unit to attack, they slowly approach the enemy's line once they made contact. If you force them to run into the enemy and past him, your unit will stay in formation and "bunch up" against the enemy. When you then order them to attack, many many more of your unit is now attacking and in contact with the enemy. Statistically this means a faster kill rate, and thus a faster loss of morale.

My solution to the AI running around is to use strategic offense and tactical defense. I attack on the strat map and go into enemy territory, then allow the enemy to attack me. Thus the enemy always comes to me on the battle map, if I can manage it.

Also the solution of using skirmishers and slingers works amazingly well for luring enemy ai units into combat. Once in combat, the enemy AI tends to try to reinforce his units, even if the AI is on the defensive. I once used an entire army of nothing but unarmored horse archers and slingers to destroy a Central European AI spawned army.