lorica segmentata

[Watchman]

Watchman, you may or may not be right about javalins, someone told me they'd been hurling them at steel car doors and punching holes.

Good plate had a habit of deflecting couched lances in full-tilt heavy cavalry clashes, which is yet another reason shields were ditched. Javelins could as well not bother trying.

In fact you can sometimes see the legionaries tunic through the gaps at the back.

That'd no longer be segmentata, but one coming apart. Badly.

Mail has greater flexability and by and large one size fits all, though fitted is better.

Flexibility isn't terrinly important in hip-lenght corselets anyway - you can do damn cartwheels wearing full plate, and I can quarantee that breastplate doesn't flex one bit. Most kinds of heavier body armours worn over the millenia barely flexed at all, and worked perfectly fine regardless - where the cloth-like suppleness of mail becomes useful is in the joints.

Regarding the longbow I will only say it was the AK-47 of it's age and I think Watchamn would probably agree with me.

Probably wouldn't. Besides the katana that one has to be the most over-hyped premodern military weapon - and most of the enthusiasts are quite unaware a bow not much short of the Welsh longbow was a required part of a militiaman's kit (atop a shield, spear, sword or axe and some armour) in medieval Scandinavia.

Lorica Segmentata has been said to weigh "as little as 5.5kg" mail is generally quite a bit heavier. Additionally you are wrong to say mail can be "easily torn" Lorica Segmentata has lots of nice gaps and edges to hook a falx onto.

I understand mail shirts of coverage comparable to the segmentata corselet tend to weigh in at the 10-15 kg range, depending on specific design details. One does recall the lorica hamata is very commonly described as being rather heavy anyway.

Personally I rather fail to perceive where there would be a true eak point in the segmentata, save perhaps for the closure. Iron lames overlapping downwards don't seem to offer a very good "bite" for most weapons by what I know of it, and the shoulders for their part are reinforced against blows from above.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Good plate had a habit of deflecting couched lances in full-tilt heavy cavalry clashes, which is yet another reason shields were ditched. Javelins could as well not bother trying.

I defer to your greater wisdom. I'm certainly not going to build a set of Gothic plate to test it.

That'd no longer be segmentata, but one coming apart. Badly.

Small gaps, between the shoulders and this particular set was fin structurally, it's owner keeps in in good nick.

Flexibility isn't terrinly important in hip-lenght corselets anyway - you can do damn cartwheels wearing full plate, and I can quarantee that breastplate doesn't flex one bit. Most kinds of heavier body armours worn over the millenia barely flexed at all, and worked perfectly fine regardless - where the cloth-like suppleness of mail becomes useful is in the joints.

It helps, certainly, but I do agree, it's not the most important factor. If anything the structure of LS causes extra problems because until the straps are broken in it tends to be very rigid around the shoulders.

Probably wouldn't. Besides the katana that one has to be the most over-hyped premodern military weapon - and most of the enthusiasts are quite unaware a bow not much short of the Welsh longbow was a required part of a militiaman's kit (atop a shield, spear, sword or axe and some armour) in medieval Scandinavia.

He, he, Katana. What I meant was it was a cheap, reliable, and powerful weapon that every Welshman ans his sheep could afford. Rather like the AK being a cheap, reliable, and powerful weapon that every Afgan and his goat can afford. You dissagree?

I understand mail shirts of coverage comparable to the segmentata corselet tend to weigh in at the 10-15 kg range, depending on specific design details. One does recall the lorica hamata is very commonly described as being rather heavy anyway.

That sounds about right, the figure of 25lbs keeps popping into my head.

Personally I rather fail to perceive where there would be a true eak point in the segmentata, save perhaps for the closure. Iron lames overlapping downwards don't seem to offer a very good "bite" for most weapons by what I know of it, and the shoulders for their part are reinforced against blows from above.

Under arms as well, neck front and back and groin (depending on the hamata you are comparing.) Of course if you stay in formation and keep your shield up snone of that matters.

[mAIOR]

Actually, a Falx could only snap onto a Segmentata in the closures. even if they used an upward blow, it'd be hard to hook on the segmentata.
Mail, is more flexible sure but, that flexibility also gives it a weakness that makes it proner to hooking and snapping. Also, could someone tell me if LH was riveted or hamered?

About LS showing the shirt beneath, I believe watchman answered that question.


Cheers...

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Well, like I said, I saw it. I was untwisting the bauldric at the time so that it didn't catch on the back plates.

[Watchman]

Ah, you meant the gaps around the joint and neck openings and so on. That's a different story of course, and over millenia there was always considerable amounts of armourer chutzpah dedicated to figuring out how to close those while still allowing for enough freedom of movement. Far as I know they still haven't worked out a solution that didn't compromise one thing or another...

Those also often tended to be very popular spots to aim for if your weapon couldn't actually penetrate the armour. I know a few interesting examples of this, but let's not digress too much.

What I meant was it was a cheap, reliable, and powerful weapon that every Welshman ans his sheep could afford. Rather like the AK being a cheap, reliable, and powerful weapon that every Afgan and his goat can afford. You dissagree?

Oh, in that sense. Yeah, wherever there was enough wilderness to hunt in (ie. that wasn't someone's private hunting reserve or somesuch) and even remotely suitable materials for crafting bows available the common folk more often than not both owned good bows a-plenty and were rather good shots with them. The northern forest belt was practically crawling with capable archers for nearly almost as long as humans dwelt there, and for example in Late Medieval if not even Early Modern Scandinavia the ability to draw a bow served as a mark of adulthood with all the associated rights and dues - it also long formed the basis for adminstrative census for taxation and so on.

The composite bow had a rather similar role wherever the prequisites for its manufacture were present, I understand.

[L.C.Cinna]

Also, could someone tell me if LH was riveted or hamered?
Cheers...

The examples of Roman mail found so far were all whether riveted and welded or riveted and stamped, around 5mm in diameter.