Is peadophilia genetic or aquired?

[Louis VI the Fat]

Row over Sarkozy's paedophilia comment refuses to go away

The French rightwing presidential hopeful Nicolas Sarkozy defended himself on television today after widespread criticism of an interview in which he said paedophiles are born, not made.
Mr Sarkozy defended his view, outlined in a philosophy magazine, that individuals might be genetically predisposed to molest children. "What part is innate and what part is acquired? At least let's debate it, let's not close the door to all debate," he said.

He added: "I'm inclined personally to think that you are born paedophile and it's a problem that we don't know how to treat this pathology."

Referring to young people killing themselves, Mr Sarkozy also spoke of a "genetic fragility, a preconditioned pain".
"I don't want to give parents a complex. It's not exclusively the parents' fault every time a youngster commits suicide," he said.

The archbishop of Paris, Monsignor André Vingt-Trois, led criticism of Mr Sarkozy.

"What seems most serious to me is the idea that you can't change the course of destiny," he said.

Marie-George Buffet of the Communist party said Mr Sarkozy's remarks were "extremely serious" and from another era.

"It goes back on everything that has evolved through science in our society," she said. "That is to recognise that every man and every woman is free and not that their whole life is already written in their genes and there's nothing they can do about it."

Philippe de Villiers, another rightwing candidate, also affirmed the principle of man's "liberty" and excluded all idea of "predetermination".

François Bayrou, third in the polls behind frontrunner Mr Sarkozy and the Socialist candidate Ségolène Royal, had already declared the comments to be worrying.

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What are your thoughts? Is peadophilia genetic, aquired or a combination of the two?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

How are we supposed to know?

[Csargo]

We'll probably never know.

[Redleg]

I think its best for me to leave this subject alone for now

[CBR]

Well I think its positive that Nicolas Sarkozy appears to have an open mind on the reasons and wants to debate it. Its the critics who appears close minded.


CBR

[Pindar]

Sarkozy has simply expressed the logical parallel position that follows the argument that a traditionally taboo behavior is in fact genetic i.e. homosexuality. If a given sexual appetite is genetic then it must be OK seems to be the refrain. This is then taken by some advocates to mean natural minority status and thus entitlement to receive state recognition.

[KukriKhan]

...This is then taken by some advocates to mean natural minority status and thus entitlement to receive state recognition.

Now, there's a slope quite slippery - and one trod more frequently of late.

@Pindar, do you see a correlation between class-action lawsuits as a vehicle for redress against well-funded corporations and government, and the increasing tendancy for folks to now identify themselves with some (perhaps many) classes, seeking legitimacy for those classes through the courts?

That was clumsily put; sorry. Has the intent of the class-action mechanism been subverted or converted into an agency for social change, you think?

edit: I'd better get back on-topic; what is the French presidential candidates motive in expressing an opinion on paedophilia? Does he have any medical or scientific background? Or was he ambushed by the press?

[HoreTore]

It doesn't really matter to me... And it is, as everyone should know, completely different from homosexuality when it comes to legal issues. There's a difference between whatever two adults choose to do, and what an adult and a child does... The child hasn't developed enough to understand anything about anything.

Simply being a pedophile shouldn't be illegal of course, but any sexual relations between adults and minors should always be illegal, and punished very hard.

[Pindar]

That was clumsily put; sorry. Has the intent of the class-action mechanism been subverted or converted into an agency for social change, you think?

The Courts in general have been subverted into an agency for social change.

[Lemur]

If a given sexual appetite is genetic then it must be OK seems to be the refrain. This is then taken by some advocates to mean natural minority status and thus entitlement to receive state recognition.

I haven't heard anyone saying that all natural appetites are "OK." It's perfectly natural to group into tribes and throw rocks at people who look different from you; nobody in their right mind argues that this is a good idea in the 21st century.

It's quite likely that certain forms of recidivist criminality are caused by a damaged part of the brain. This is a known issue. Nobody is arguing that those criminals should be treated with "minority status." If some pedophiles are found to have a genetic component, I don't think any respectable person will say that they should be awarded with special legal dispensations.

The conflation of homosexuality with pedophilia is an old ruse, most visibly practiced by Rick Santorum. I find it abhorrent.

[Pindar]

I haven't heard anyone saying that all natural appetites are "OK."

Quite. Most are content to advocate their pet appetite or whatever appetite is socially in vogue. Even so, the base logic remains: to argue genetic predilection constitutes acceptability or natural minority status opens the flood gates.

The homosexuality with pedophilia is an old ruse, most visibly practiced by Rick Santorum. I find it abhorrent.

Why?

[Adrian II]

Sarkozy has simply expressed the logical parallel position that follows the argument that a traditionally taboo behavior is in fact genetic i.e. homosexuality. If a given sexual appetite is genetic then it must be OK seems to be the refrain. This is then taken by some advocates to mean natural minority status and thus entitlement to receive state recognition.

You are making three mistakes:

1. After claiming that paedophilia is genetically predisposed, Sarkozy has withdrawn that claim and said he merely wants to 'discuss' the possibility.
2. The refrain that all genetically predisposed sexual behaviour is 'OK' is to be found nowhere in the world. If you can show me one black swan, so to speak, I will eat my virtual hat.
3. State recognition of the right of homosexuals to marry and raise children does not hinge on genetic claims, it emanates from a particular civil rights view

P.S. Sarkozy also states that juvenile suicide might be genetically predisposed. I wonder what Richard Dawkins would say to that.
Is genetic attribution of unwanted behaviour a meme?

[doc_bean]

The refrain that all genetically predisposed sexual behaviour is 'OK' is to be found nowhere in the world. If you can show me one black swan, so to speak, I will eat my virtual hat.

Sorry, Adrian, but the 'gay movement' or at least a lot of gay people have gone through considerable effort to try and obtain proof that homosexuality is a genetic trait. If this should/would have absolutely no influence on society then why is it so important to 'them' ?

State recognition of the right of homosexuals to marry and raise children does not hinge on genetic claims, it emanates from a particular civil rights view

True, but the 'I can't help it, it's genetic' claim is often used as a reason why they should be allowed to marry and such, instead of the argument that it's a free world and if they want to **** someone of their own gender than it's their business, and if they want to marry them, that's their business too, freedom and all that.

I don't want to derail this thread into a homosexual rights debate (they can do whatever the fuss they want as far as I'm concerned), but I find it weird that people accept that homosexuality is genetic but when it's suggested that paedophila is too there's a wave of protest. That gets a big 'Huh ?' from me.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Sarkozy has simply expressed the logical parallel position that follows the argument that a traditionally taboo behavior is in fact genetic i.e. homosexuality. If a given sexual appetite is genetic then it must be OK seems to be the refrain. This is then taken by some advocates to mean natural minority status and thus entitlement to receive state recognition.

You are making three mistakes:

1. After claiming that paedophilia is genetically predisposed, Sarkozy has withdrawn that claim and said he merely wants to 'discuss' the possibility.
2. The refrain that all genetically predisposed sexual behaviour is 'OK' is to be found nowhere in the world. If you can show me one black swan, so to speak, I will eat my virtual hat.
3. State recognition of the right of homosexuals to marry and raise children does not hinge on genetic claims, it emanates from a particular civil rights view

P.S. Sarkozy also states that juvenile suicide might be genetically predisposed. I wonder what Richard Dawkins would say to that.
Is genetic attribution of unwanted behaviour a meme?

Actually, I know what Pindar refers to, and think I agree to some extent. The truth is that most people need morality ideas to be built on an axiomatic theory in order that it can be fair and logical, since an illogical and inconsequent morality would be both unfair and irrational. As a result, people try to form their own axiomatic model behind their opinions in individual matters of morality, in order to achieve this consistency and fairness. Sometimes this modelling and building of an axiomatic system doesn't coincide with what was intended, resulting in a model that implies certain behaviors originally intended to not be accepted being accepted by the rules of the system, and/or certain behaviors originally intended to be accepted not being accepted by the rules of the system. People more or less subconsciously try to make such an axiomatic theory of the currently accepted moral values of society. When no such axiomatic theory exists behind the individual moral ideas, people make up such a system - accurate or not. When it is inaccurate (as in very different from the ideas underlying the opinions of the original advocates of a particular moral idea), it results in things such as the "political correctness" phenomenon, as well as cases of the opposite, in which perfectly harmless behaviors are considered dangerous and forbidden. To me it would seem that in most parts of the western world, in the public mind, it's considered absolute taboo to claim that genetically predisposed behaviors aren't ok, due to the form of the axiomatic model made by people in general of the moral ideas presented by modern culture and law. Thus, what you point out as mistake no. 2 in Pindar's post isn't really a mistake. In fact I'd say most of western society has this taboo present in the public mind, even if that wasn't the idea behind when certain artists, politicians and philosophers decided that homosexuality should be accepted. In general, presenting a morality system without axiomatic theory behind it, tends to result in problems of this type. It can be called irrational, but so can the practise of presenting morality ideas or systems without presenting a decent axiomatic underlying model, to guarantee consistency and fairness of the morality system, and emphasizing that model as much as the presented opinion. For the public to avoid ending up with the problems of the political correctness phenomenon, the phenomenon of overly harsh and intolerant behavior, and other consequences of incorrect axiomatic modelling of a presented set of moral ideas, the moral ideas must initially be presented along with a correct and accurate such theory. Now what you present in point no. 3 above is probably the correct axiomatic theory behind rights of homosexuals according to most who currently advocate and in the past advocated these ideas, but due to above mentioned phenomena no. 2 is the idea held by the public mind. To cure this, people need sufficient examples that such a system implies things they don't want (Sarkozy's attempt at arguing based on no. 2 is one such example), and also show that it is acceptable to break the taboo in no. 2 without being called ugly things. This could be done by letting influential and charismatic persons take initiatives to show that breaking no. 2 is considered acceptable by society, and that the ideas of homosexual rights are instead of being based on no. 2 being based on something else, such as the idea that people are free to do what they want if they don't hurt anybody else. Such a model implies that acceptance should be shown towards homosexuals, without implying acceptance to pedophilia.