The Pope - Does he tactically ex-communicate?

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Hi guys,
A while ago, in a French campaign, as in most of my campaigns it ended in a civil war and utter-defeat with a treasury in minus figures, in XL, I noticed something rather strange. I had attacked the pathetically poor Geonese as a tactical way of forcing the influential pope to warn me so that I would be free to remove the English in peace. The Pope, rather than warning me for my aggressive nature, cancelled his alliance with the Geonese. Two turns later they were ex-communicated and the following turn the Pope declared war on them, invaded their lands, wiped them out and the following turn started tearing chunks out of the, excommunicated for their attacks on me, the Holy Roman Empire. I had never seen anything so strange in any campaign before, although you can excuse me for this, I have sadly being playing for just over a month, so I was amazed when I saw these events occur. Has anybody else had a ferocious pope who ex-communicates and then uses it to attack and do any experts understand what may have caused this peculiar action by the "Holy" Father. All help/advise appreciated, thanks!

[mfberg]

The pope is usually non-expansive, but when he gets a wild hair he can end up with most of Europe. Tactical ex-communication is just one way he gets things taken care of. He will also call crusades down on friends and foes for his own reasons.

mfberg

[Martok]

@Omanes: I would say that's somewhat unusual, but not without precedent. The bigger faction generally receives the warning, yes, but not always. And as mfberg pointed out, the Pope does occasionally become aggressive. Your "war" with the Genoans may have simply been the casus belli His Holiness was looking for to expand his territory. It happens to me only rarely, but it does happen.

[EatYerGreens]

That was wierd. How long did you leave your troops in ex-Genoese territory?

Normally, you only get the Papal warning *after* you've fought the battle, conquered the province and got your opponent under siege.

The "withdraw your forces within 2 years" bit is somewhat flexible in the interpretation department: - If you win the siege assault battle (in year 1, or year 2) then, technically, the province is now your territory and you have complied with his order.

If, instead, you trigger the war by placing your army piece on Genoese land but, at the 3D battle screen, you abort the attack, the state of war with Genoa will persist but you are not on their land, so you do not get the Papal warning at all.

The reason it was the Genoese who got excommunicated was because the Pope attacked them. Making war with the Papacy means immediate excom (no warning stage) and this happens even if it's him who starts it!

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Hi,

That was wierd. How long did you leave your troops in ex-Genoese territory?

It was seeming only a couple of turns, at most it may have been three.

Normally, you only get the Papal warning *after* you've fought the battle, conquered the province and got your opponent under siege.

Hmm, yes perhaps that could have effected it. The Geonese didn't decide to fight the battle, they instead withdrew to their only other feeble province. Their military might, a unit of peasants, was quite humble compared to my army of Men-at-Arms so it was quite easy to draw them out.

The reason it was the Genoese who got excommunicated was because the Pope attacked them. Making war with the Papacy means immediate excom (no warning stage) and this happens even if it's him who starts it!

Hmm, I'm quite sure that the excommunication occurred first. I had a Diplomatic guy (my feeble mind cannot remember their in-game names right now) in their only province trying to bribe their only decent force. I am pretty sure that the ex-communication came first, I'm not sure why he did it - my spying missions showed no sign of aggressive action on their side, followed by the attack a few turns later, yet I may be wrong in that regard - it was quite a time ago so I may have forgotten exactly how it happened.

BTW, thanks for your help!

[Kavhan Isbul]

The reason it was the Genoese who got excommunicated was because the Pope attacked them. Making war with the Papacy means immediate excom (no warning stage) and this happens even if it's him who starts it!

I have to disagree - the Pope only excommunicates if he is attacked, even if it is a sally out of a fortification. However, I have been attacked by him many times, and unless I retaliated in some way, I have never been excommunicated - he would not allow me to crusade, but ne excommunication. I am 100% sure about this. What could have happened is that the Genoese might have attacked a Papal ship somewhere, and this is what got them excommunicated, even if they did not attack the Pope by land.

[seireikhaan]

Its been rare, but I've seen the Pope do such things. Once, as Hungary, the holy father attacked venice. Not expecting the manuever, I withdrew to the keep. The next turn, I took Venice back, only to be warned by the pope to stop agression against him. Two turns later, he invades Venice again. This time, he's repulsed. What do I get for defending myself? A big, juicy, double order of excommunication! Now that's really frustrating.

[Bregil the Bowman]

I have to disagree - the Pope only excommunicates if he is attacked, even if it is a sally out of a fortification. However, I have been attacked by him many times, and unless I retaliated in some way, I have never been excommunicated - he would not allow me to crusade, but ne excommunication. I am 100% sure about this. What could have happened is that the Genoese might have attacked a Papal ship somewhere, and this is what got them excommunicated, even if they did not attack the Pope by land.

I'm with you on this one (Vanilla and VI at any rate). As Spain I fought a long and bitter campaign against the Pope but was not excommunicated as he was clearly the aggressor. If I ever attacked, however - even to regain a province under siege - out came bell, book, candle and Syrian assassin (the last of which, in game terms, proved the more effective measure).