Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: The Pope and the Theory of Evolution

  1. #1
    The Philosopher Duke Member Suraknar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Navigating the realm of Ideas
    Posts
    707

    Default The Pope and the Theory of Evolution

    Seems like the Pope has taken a middle stance and does not reject Darwin's Theory of evolution, nor endorses Intelligent Deasign Theory.

    A fine line indeed.

    Link: News

    Thoughts?
    Duke Surak'nar
    "Η ΤΑΝ Η ΕΠΙ ΤΑΣ"
    From: Residing:
    Traveled to: Over 70 Countries, most recent: and

    ~ Ask not what modding can do for you, rather ask what you can do for modding ~
    ~ Everyone dies, not everyone really fights ~

  2. #2
    zombologist Senior Member doc_bean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Riding Shai-Hulud
    Posts
    5,346

    Default Re: The Pope and the Theory of Evolution

    The Catholic Church never (to my knowledge) opposed evolution or endorsed Creationism, this seems like a quite unnecessary comment. If anything he's moving away from the acceptence of the science, not a positive evolution.

    But then again, few things are positive about our new fearless leader... (Why O why couldn't they have picked one of the South Americans ???)
    Yes, Iraq is peaceful. Go to sleep now. - Adrian II

  3. #3

    Default Re: The Pope and the Theory of Evolution

    Seems like the Pope has taken a middle stance and does not reject Darwin's Theory of evolution, nor endorses Intelligent Deasign Theory.
    So he is seeing science and religeon as two seperate things really isn't he....
    "Its results lead to questions that go beyond its methodical canon and cannot be answered within it," it just sounds sooooo 5th century he should modernise it a bit
    But hey , here we are in the 21st and some people still can't tell the difference between faith and scientific theories .

    The Catholic Church never (to my knowledge) opposed evolution or endorsed Creationism
    Thats a good thing really isn't it , what we know as creationism today is based on the literal interpretation of every word of the bible as absolute literal truth , the catholic church would have a bit of a problem with that since it had a big hand in rewriting the book .

  4. #4
    Master of Few Words Senior Member KukriKhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    10,415

    Default Re: The Pope and the Theory of Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by article
    ... John Paul II, who said that Charles Darwin's theories on evolution were sound, as long as they took into account that creation was the work of God, and that Darwin's theory of evolution was "more than a hypothesis."

    "The pope (John Paul) had his reasons for saying this," Benedict said. "But it is also true that the theory of evolution is not a complete, scientifically proven theory."
    Is Benedict contradicting JP2 here?
    Be well. Do good. Keep in touch.

  5. #5
    Bopa Member Incongruous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    H.M.S Default
    Posts
    2,647

    Default Re: The Pope and the Theory of Evolution

    Seems so, bad mistake imo.

    Sig by Durango

    Now that the House of Commons is trying to become useful, it does a great deal of harm.
    -Oscar Wilde

  6. #6
    zombologist Senior Member doc_bean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Riding Shai-Hulud
    Posts
    5,346

    Default Re: The Pope and the Theory of Evolution

    Benedict is one big, bad mistake. John Paul II was far from perfect, but he was a 'liberal' compared to our new fuhrer ...
    Yes, Iraq is peaceful. Go to sleep now. - Adrian II

  7. #7
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Taplow, UK
    Posts
    8,690
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: The Pope and the Theory of Evolution

    Good thing millions of people don't follow his every senile word...

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
    Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
    "If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
    If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill

  8. #8
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    15,617

    Default Re: The Pope and the Theory of Evolution

    Yeah, I believe in creationism only, all the science is just a bad excuse for non-believers and the catholic church just tries to be hip anyway.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  9. #9
    Standing Up For Rationality Senior Member Ronin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Lisbon,Portugal
    Posts
    4,952

    Default Re: The Pope and the Theory of Evolution

    so this senile old man says something and this is supposed to mean something?

    why? because he has a big hat? give me a break...
    "If given the choice to be the shepherd or the sheep... be the wolf"
    -Josh Homme
    "That's the difference between me and the rest of the world! Happiness isn't good enough for me! I demand euphoria!"
    - Calvin

  10. #10
    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Hunting the Snark, a long way from Tipperary...
    Posts
    5,604

    Default Re: The Pope and the Theory of Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin
    so this senile old man says something and this is supposed to mean something?

    why? because he has a big hat? give me a break...
    Why is because he is the spiritual leader of quite a lot of people, and therefore his views are evaluated as interesting by quite a lot more.

    Let's be careful if slinging insults to take into account other members' beliefs.

    And I'd be more worried about his crook than his hat...
    "If there is a sin against life, it consists not so much in despairing as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this one."
    Albert Camus "Noces"

  11. #11
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Between the Mountain and the Sound
    Posts
    11,074
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: The Pope and the Theory of Evolution

    I fail to see the big deal. He's certainly not rejecting evolution, and certainly not endorsing creationism - he doesn't even bring up literal creationism as having any substance.

    why? because he has a big hat? give me a break...
    Your piercing wisdom has lead you to the source of the Catholic Church's power!
    Oh noes!


    I find all the ad-homenims thrown against the Pope amusing, especially the 'senile' part.

    CR
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

  12. #12
    Standing Up For Rationality Senior Member Ronin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Lisbon,Portugal
    Posts
    4,952

    Default Re: The Pope and the Theory of Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit
    Your piercing wisdom has lead you to the source of the Catholic Church's power!
    Oh noes!
    Isn´t that how the Catholic Church is organized??

    to quote Denis Leary:
    The bigger the hat the more important the guy right. Priests have no hats, cardinals have those little red beanies, the pope has a collection of big hats. God must have a huge ******* sombrero on up there in heaven!
    "If given the choice to be the shepherd or the sheep... be the wolf"
    -Josh Homme
    "That's the difference between me and the rest of the world! Happiness isn't good enough for me! I demand euphoria!"
    - Calvin

  13. #13
    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    in the cloud.
    Posts
    9,007

    Default Re: The Pope and the Theory of Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by KukriKhan
    Is Benedict contradicting JP2 here?
    I don't see it. Certainly not based on what's in the article. To me it seems more like he's adding to what JP2 said by reminding us that it's also important to keep in mind that the theory doesn't have all the answers and God has a role in it.

    I fail to see where any of the statements quoted are anything controversial.
    "Don't believe everything you read online."
    -Abraham Lincoln

  14. #14
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Isca
    Posts
    13,477

    Default Re: The Pope and the Theory of Evolution

    I really don't see the problem here with evolution. All he's saying is that just to say "we evolved" doesn't answer other questions, like why we feel the need to settle down but then a lot of us cheat on our long term partners.

    He's only saying evolution isn't provable and testable, you can't watch a bug become a mouce, or a fish become a man. That's true evolution is just our best guess, it's a very good guess but it's not cast iron law.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

    [IMG]https://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4917/logoromans23pd.jpg[/IMG]

  15. #15
    American since 2012 Senior Member AntiochusIII's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Lalaland
    Posts
    3,125

    Default Re: The Pope and the Theory of Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla
    He's only saying evolution isn't provable and testable, you can't watch a bug become a mouce, or a fish become a man. That's true evolution is just our best guess, it's a very good guess but it's not cast iron law.
    It's actually testable (provable is a pretty confused concept). Remember how the desperate Creationists try to divide "micro-evolution" and "macro-evolution?" The so-called "micro-evolution" is just evolution that happens in a short enough time frame to be clearly observed and experimented upon in a limited period of time. Data from much larger time scales have, of course, been observed and collected, but such data naturally is not as complete as something you can replicate in a laboratory setting.

    And only Hitler cares about the Iron Law of Nature [/Mein Kampf + Godwin's Law, ha!]

    Our dear His Big Bunny [see South Park] is echoing something a US "evolution skeptic" (it's popular these days) would say -- "Oh, evolution is just a theory! It's rather, erm, decent, I must grudgingly admit, but it's a theory! You gotta learn that it's a theory. Did I say it's a theory?" Which sucks, since a Pope is supposed to be hip and cool, you know, not, ah, all like this.
    Last edited by AntiochusIII; 04-14-2007 at 21:59.

  16. #16
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Isca
    Posts
    13,477

    Default Re: The Pope and the Theory of Evolution

    Yes, it's testable, but you can't test from single cell to a human being, which is what the theory puts foward. As such the whole theory is untestable and therefore unprovable. However, we can test much smaller timescales ans this in addition to understanding of selective breeding, the fosil record and an increasing understanding of genetics indicates the theory is correct.

    However, not of that constitutes difinitive proof. It's like saying Newton's Laws of Motion are concrete and provable, until Einstien comes along and proves that in 0.1% of cases they don't work.

    They're still as close as you or I will ever need but thay're also technically wrong.

    Evolution might also be almost right but actually wrong.

    So what the Pope is saying is perfectly logical. His intent in saying it might be something else.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

    [IMG]https://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4917/logoromans23pd.jpg[/IMG]

  17. #17
    zombologist Senior Member doc_bean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Riding Shai-Hulud
    Posts
    5,346

    Default Re: The Pope and the Theory of Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

    So what the Pope is saying is perfectly logical. His intent in saying it might be something else.
    Which is what I'm a bit worried about, living in a 'Catholic' country. Catholics tend to be rather moderate, compared to most protestant believes at least. I have no desire to see religion become a serious issue again in this country.

    *Note: most people no longer go to church and even those that do are often cirtical of the pope, but anything that can widen the gap between the Catholics and secualr society is bad imo.
    Yes, Iraq is peaceful. Go to sleep now. - Adrian II

  18. #18
    Master of Few Words Senior Member KukriKhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    10,415

    Default Re: The Pope and the Theory of Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiahou
    I don't see it. Certainly not based on what's in the article. To me it seems more like he's adding to what JP2 said by reminding us that it's also important to keep in mind that the theory doesn't have all the answers and God has a role in it.

    I fail to see where any of the statements quoted are anything controversial.
    You're probably right. His little "disclaimer" at the beginning:
    "The pope (John Paul) had his reasons for saying this... "
    raised a tiny red flag with me. Without further explanation, I'd come to see that he (Benny) wanted to distance himself, gently but firmly, from JP2's views. IF that were the case, might he be looking to do the same with other of his predessessor's views; accelerated sainthood process, dialog with other religions, for examples.

    Anti-papists don't care, but the guy speaks to/for a sizeable swath of earth's population, so I'm interested.
    Be well. Do good. Keep in touch.

  19. #19
    The Philosopher Duke Member Suraknar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Navigating the realm of Ideas
    Posts
    707

    Default Re: The Pope and the Theory of Evolution

    It is very possible that Benedict sees it as his duty to perform a realignment of the Catholic Church, comming from the sentiment that JPII may have been a bit too liberal in his approach and cause many faithfull to doubt the churche's doctrines.

    Yet, will taking people back to their flock tending occupations after they have seen Paris, work?

    On the other hand, he maybe simply attempting to quel the controversy and debate between the two ends, by standing in the middle and attempting to bring them closer to talking rather than fighting.
    Duke Surak'nar
    "Η ΤΑΝ Η ΕΠΙ ΤΑΣ"
    From: Residing:
    Traveled to: Over 70 Countries, most recent: and

    ~ Ask not what modding can do for you, rather ask what you can do for modding ~
    ~ Everyone dies, not everyone really fights ~

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO