Celtic overpowered!

[Foot]

i usually play in my campaigns h/h i really like the challenge but sometimes the ai abuses the bonuses it receives from the difficulty level, well im using the best unit the lusotanan can offer the vasci shock infantry and they where wasted by the gaesetae also the loricati caetrati which are heavy troops too and they do have a very good armor and attack rating too, anyways i feel the celtic units are overpowered, also in one battle a unit of lugoae the levy spearmen, caused a lot of casualties to a full unit of loricati scutari with the armor and attack upgrade and one chevron of experience, hahahaha anyways thanks for the mod guys i really enjoy it!im really waiting for the mod for mtw2 !greetings from mexico!

The stats for EB are not designed for any difficulty level other than medium for battle. The reason that the celtic units appear overpowered to you is because of those bonuses. If you don't play on medium battle difficulty, we can't really help with any complaints.

Foot

[Frostwulf]

It seems to me that the units are overpowered as well. I did a cursory check of the units from Celtic type peoples (Aedui, Galations, etc.) and for the infantry units anyway they seem to be more powerful then even the Romans. It seems to me that the the Celts infantry units from the light,med,hvy and special units are in general more powerful then units of other factions.
I have a problem with this because the Romans and Germans consistently beat up on the Celts. It seems strange that some of the Celt units are even stronger then the elite Roman Praetorian guard. I readily admit Im not a historical scholar but as an amature historian of several readings on this period these stats dont fit.
As far as the Gaesatae are concerned I still have a problem with their stats. I know people keep saying these guy were hopped up on drugs etc. There was a study done in 2004 on drug induced volunteer and how effective they were with melee weapons. These volunteers where trained to use these weapons and when they used the drugs there effectiveness severely decreased. Granted this study used different drugs then the Gaesatae used, but if your body is numb to that much to pain I doubt the effectiveness of your abilities to use weapons. It might be a different situation if ignoring pain was due to adrenaline.

I do think the EB team did an exceptional job on this mod, I just happen to disagree with the Celt stats. If anyone has any information I could find on the Gaesatae and Celtic fighting in general, I would greatly appreciate the information.

[Anthony]

As I recall, most decent Celtic units are more expensive than the Roman counterparts, which accounts for a bit of that; there aren't enough of the good soldiers to fight their equivalents, due to their cost. Mind Romans did have trouble with actual soldiers in Celtic territories, as opposed to levies-augmented-by-soldiers that Julius Caesar had to fight (as the Gallic armies were so worn down by fighting between the Sequani {who's royal house taken control of the kingdom the Arverni had built} and the Aedui Confederacy). Most Gallic soldiers in those days would've probably been spearmen, incapable of raising 'regulars', who the Neitos represent. Mail-equipped companies of Gauls were trouble for the Romans, but most were spent retarding the Germanic expansion or fighting eachother; had they been spent against the Romans, it may have been at least a bit different, at least slowing the conquest of Gaul.

[NeoSpartan]

Funny how people say the Romans and Germans constantly beat up on the Celts by ONLY looking at the period of Ceasar's Gaellic Wars.

[Geoffrey S]

Punctuation...

[Tretii]

I don't think Celtic units are overpowered at all. In my Aedui campaign I had hard times fighting against Romans on one side and Garthage on the other. Despite having Celtic slingers. Try to use em against Roman Triarii and you will be running around the battle map a lot.

[SaFe]

Funny how people say the Romans and Germans constantly beat up on the Celts by ONLY looking at the period of Ceasar's Gaellic Wars.

Thats definately too simple but it is also much too simple to say that the gauls just lost vs. the germanic tribes because of inner-tribal struggles.
They were pushed west- and southwards from the germanic tribes a few decades before Ariovist beat the Aedui or Ceasar conquered Gaul.

[Orb]

The Celts did sack Rome once, and they also inflicted heavy damage on the Greeks (slightly before the time frame, IIRC). Also, as the Lusotannan, on medium, I've had my proverbial ass sort-of-handed to me by rebels (I lost 4-5 average units for just two units caetrati) because of situational bonus terrain gives. Just throwing units in isn't guaranteed to work in overwhelming particular units, particularly units going down hill seem to nail everything.

[Watchman]

By what I've read of it thus far here, I've gotten the impression the developements along the Celtic/German border in fact rather closely paralleled the later Roman/Germanic border overall... Internal troubles on one side allowed ample opportunities for the other to grow stronger at their expense, and eventually begin graduating from raiding and pillaging to outright invasion and conquest once the defenders have become ragged enough. That success an profit from raiding the richer Gallic areas and/or being paid for mercenary service there only improved the prestige, resources and power of the Germanic border chiefs and attracted even more enterprising groups and individuals from further away to try to get a slice of the cake cannot have helped.

[SaFe]

That really doesn't belong here, but the ideal display of the germanics in EB should be as a emerging faction ca. 130 BC- 110 BC.

But i also say it is much too easy to give the germanic tribes only credit for their successes because of inner-celtic struggles.
They fought hard on the Belgae border, drove th Helvetii from their homelands and took many oppidas from their gallic enemies before the war between the Averni and the Aedui as the two major celtic powers.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Funny how people say the Romans and Germans constantly beat up on the Celts by ONLY looking at the period of Ceasar's Gaellic Wars.

I hate to be pedantic or demeaning but, "Gaelic" refers to people in Ireland (& Scotland) of a little later period, and "Gallic" refers to the Celts who were in what is modern France. Probably just a typo...

[Zim]

I hate to be pedantic or demening but, "Gaelic" refers to people in Ireland (& Scotland) of a little later period, and "Gallic" refers to the Celts who were in what is modern France. Probably just a typo...

Haha. I just remembered this "rule" I heard about a while back stating that any time you post in a thread to correct somebody's spelling or a grammar mistake, you always make one of your own.

I wonder what kind of mistake I'll have made in this post...

[The_Mark]

Haha. I just remembered this "rule" I heard about a while back stating that any time you post in a thread to correct somebody's spelling or a grammar mistake, you always make one of your own.

I wonder what kind of mistake I'll have made in this post...

Though, I'll have to consult my copy of "A Thousand and One Tempuses" to be certain on this one.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Haha. I just remembered this "rule" I heard about a while back stating that any time you post in a thread to correct somebody's spelling or a grammar mistake, you always make one of your own.

I wonder what kind of mistake I'll have made in this post...

That is really funny. I actually grabbed a dictionary and looked that word up to spell it. I found it, looked at the spelling, read the definition, then didn't change it. Not I feel really stupid and I wasted time.

[Jaywalker-Jack]

Funny how people say the Romans and Germans constantly beat up on the Celts by ONLY looking at the period of Ceasar's Gaellic Wars.

Damn straight. Caeser's invasion was really just the last chapter for the continental Celts. Before that Celtic tribes conquered much of Europe, from Iberia all the way to Anatolia, they sacked Rome, and according to new evidence they may have sacked Delphi too. (The Greeks claim they stopped the barbarians in the nick of time, but just recently rich Greek objects like those that would have been deposited at Delphi have turned up in French rivers and lakes.) As for the Germans, they were blocked from expanding south for centuries by Celtic tribes such as the Volcae.
Im guessing the perception of Germans wiping the floor with Celts comes from the Anglo-Saxon invasion of Britain, which happened much later (and was by no means a walk over for the Saxons - read the Mabinogion).

[Zaknafien]

also, apparently you've not noticed that medics and 'soldiers healing' are already in the game through ancilliaries that increase soldiers healed after a battle.

[Power2the1]

Damn straight. Caeser's invasion was really just the last chapter for the continental Celts. Before that Celtic tribes conquered much of Europe, from Iberia all the way to Anatolia, they sacked Rome, and according to new evidence they may have sacked Delphi too. (The Greeks claim they stopped the barbarians in the nick of time, but just recently rich Greek objects like those that would have been deposited at Delphi have turned up in French rivers and lakes.) As for the Germans, they were blocked from expanding south for centuries by Celtic tribes such as the Volcae.
Im guessing the perception of Germans wiping the floor with Celts comes from the Anglo-Saxon invasion of Britain, which happened much later (and was by no means a walk over for the Saxons - read the Mabinogion).

I agree. I mentioned in an earlier post the Germans, on the whole, had to fight against failing, soon to fall empires and lands (Western Romans Empire & Gaul) and invaded lands that were robbed of their defenses and Legions on the edges of Empires (Britannia).

What accounts for the absence of Gauls elite warriors?

I think the Celtic Civil War had robbed Gaul of its best troops in the war between the two main tribes, Aedui and Arverni. I feel theres no way Caesar would have been able to take down Gaul otherwise.

Each tribe had its elite, well trained warrior classes. If Gaul was united behind resisting Caesar, where were these elite warriors? I do not believe Caesar fought against a professional Celtic force, even once, in Gaul. The only logical reason I can imagine is that Gaul's professional armies, and their most experienced troops were already gone and dead through Civil War.

Imagine the siege of Alesia with the relief army composing of professional, seasoned warriors from Gaul from each tribe? Caesar would have been hard pressed to hold out against them.

No doubt this will be taken as downplaying Germanic wonder conquests. It would be admirable if they fought against vigorous, powerful empires in their prime, but that never really happened...\

Feel free to disagree though. Just my 2 cents...

[Thaatu]

- It is just a fact that they are very hard to kill (and they have higher defence than various greek units) --

Just accidentally checked this. Galatian Shortswordsmen have total defence of 14 (armour 1, shield 2, skill 11) while Hoplitai Haploi have defence 15 (armour 5, shield 4, skill 7). Are you absolutely sure their defence is too strong? I can't find a single Hellenistic unit with lower defence than that, apart from Akontistai, Toxotai and Sphendonetai. You should read the description of the unit and you'll find a completely new perspective on them.

[cmacq]

I think the Celtic Civil War had robbed Gaul of its best troops in the war between the two main tribes, Aedui and Arverni. I feel theres no way Caesar would have been able to take down Gaul otherwise.

Each tribe had its elite, well trained warrior classes. If Gaul was united behind resisting Caesar, where were these elite warriors? I do not believe Caesar fought against a professional Celtic force, even once, in Gaul. The only logical reason I can imagine is that Gaul's professional armies, and their most experienced troops were already gone and dead through Civil War.

Imagine the siege of Alesia with the relief army composing of professional, seasoned warriors from Gaul from each tribe? Caesar would have been hard pressed to hold out against them.

No doubt this will be taken as downplaying Germanic wonder conquests. It would be admirable if they fought against vigorous, powerful empires in their prime, but that never really happened...\

I've had this Gallic Civil War discussion before. It seems clear that here the Swabians were simply acting out the role the Franks would later play. That is fighting for the caracas of a big dead cow. Except in their case there was a bigger more bader wolf on site? Caesar.

[Boyar Son]

The stats for EB are not designed for any difficulty level other than medium for battle. The reason that the celtic units appear overpowered to you is because of those bonuses. If you don't play on medium battle difficulty, we can't really help with any complaints.

Foot

this really does answer alot of questions