Celtic overpowered!

[Hooahguy]

Germans never had to face such odds until WW2

what about WWI and the countless wars that came before it?

[blitzkrieg80]

Power2the1, "non-civil war affected society"?? HELLO- almost all tribes (especially in Europe) participate in ritual warfare, continuous raiding and feuding which is actually a whole lot like civil war... there just isn't a continuous ideological dedication to war with neighbors... go to the ghetto and poor slums of any civilization on earth and see how much peace and lack of violence exists.

btw, the Germans were there the WHOLE time. that's why they're around in EB... you mention the missing emperor figure and Roman military- why? because the Germans were better soldiers and civilization had gotten very used to using them instead of making their own. that is why German soldiers were placing their own emperor on the throne, not because they secretly came in and Romans mysteriously disappeared, but because there was no way to stop that which was accepted by choice.

if you study the early history of Prussia (not the real Prussians who were cool ass pagan Balto-Slavs) but the state with its capital eventually at Brandenburg, you'll notice that a very tiny country faced huge threats continuously over time... seriously, now. there is a reason that Prussian military tradition became the "Roman" variant of its time... the Teutonic Knights suck though, so don't think I mean them even if they started the area, because their un-Christ-like genocide made in his name is as much BS as the one below this paragraph.

the Thirty Years War was a conflict ( I know there is more to it, but I will speak of Germans ) of small and relatively disunited German states who actually put up more of a fight than other similar states, against many nations. Talk about genocide: ignored because it was Catholics peforming it in an effort to control thought, this is vastly ignored due to the "who cares about killing Germans" sentiment of Europe... at least Europeans discovered how good the potato is seriously, crops were burned and they learned how great its nutrition is even though it was "lowly"

if you ask me, one of the primary reasons for the late formation of a unified German state only in the nineteenth century (besides their love of decentralized government) is because the people of the German states were continuously at war (not by choice) especially seen in the Thirty Years War... it is a fact that one of the reasons for WW1 is because Great Britain couldn't handle the idea of competition, Germany had become a GNP powerhouse. there was no "right" or "wrong" in that war, just the idea of "balance of power" which Britain loves to use when it limits other Europeans, but if you look at their military history, they are in more wars than ANYBODY and it's for their own interest and power.

BTW, the reason the Germans were held back so long in antiquity was the fact that the Romans continuously killed them and "defended themselves." so to say that they waited until the time was right is laughable. they struggled for their whole existence as most Eurasian peoples not living off the wealth of others. Not that they wouldn't have if they could (live off the wealth of others). I'm not saying they would be "uber" anything, the Germanic peoples were tribal- and they borrowed technology as much as anybody, why invent an alphabet on your own if you can just borrow it, but it is a fact that Romans "liked" to have reasons to raid Germany and receive triumphs over peoples (not just Germans).

[Erebus26]

if you ask me, one of the primary reasons for the late formation of a unified German state only in the nineteenth century (besides their love of decentralized government) is because the people of the German states were continuously at war (not by choice) especially seen in the Thirty Years War... it is a fact that one of the reasons for WW1 is because Great Britain couldn't handle the idea of competition, Germany had become a GNP powerhouse. there was no "right" or "wrong" in that war, just the idea of "balance of power" which Britain loves to use when it limits other Europeans, but if you look at their military history, they are in more wars than ANYBODY and it's for their own interest and power.

I think you're a good lad Blitzkreig, and I respect your comments, but haven't you heard of the Schlieffen Plan? Germany had, apart from Russia, the biggest army in Europe at that time and it was undoubtedly the most efficient and well trained. Plus Prussia was involved in two wars in the 19th century - against Austria in 1866 and France 1870 - in order to prove it's military superiority and to weaken it's neighbours. Britain was also involved in a lot of wars during the 19th century but all, apart from the Crimea, were in our colonies, although they were to preserve our power and prestige!

[blitzkrieg80]

well if you know your neighbors are going to declare war, amassing an army and planning other manuevers is hardly offensive... Napoleon had the same problem... of course Britain's reasoning was against that scary "revolution" thing and dethroning of the monarchy but also maintaining the "balance of power". if Germany was so power-hungry then the Franco-Prussian war wouldn't have ended so nicely... in fact, reclaiming parts of Charlemagne's empire is hardly anything, so France should be ashamed of making such as fuss to cause WW1

[Power2the1]

I'm sorry guys, I should have clarified. What I meant by "The Germans did not have to face such odd until WW2" is like this:

You have the Germans (i.e. Arverni will be used to keep it simple), steadily being attacked and also attacking, years of very hard war, townships being razed and destroyed, trade, food, and supplies affected, civilians under all the wartime stress, standard of living has went down, etc...and during all this, you have mighty America (i.e. Rome) coming at you full steam. They are not alone, they've brought their British and Canadian allies (i.e. Rome's various Germanic allies). At the same time, you have to contend with keeping intact your own allied countries like Italy, Romania, Bulgaria and aid them (i.e. smaller subjugated Gallic tribes allied with the Arverni). On top of that Russia (i.e. Aedui) is still coming on strong, and you are trying to win on all fronts. Your allies are dropping off and some are joining/surrendering the enemy (i.e. Gallic tribes defecting/joining/surrendering to Caesar)


Basically, like I mentioned earlier, I do believe the Germans are vastly overrated in their Ancient/Dark Age conquests when you consider who they had to face on the whole (frail and failing empires and abandoned demoralized armies at the fringes of the empire). To claim thats a remarkable tactical masterstroke based on "superior" racial constitution just because they were German, is unbalanced.

I hope I illustrated this well enough. Perhaps it falls on its face, I don't know. I makes sense to me, so I hope its conveyed well.

[blitzkrieg80]

Wait... you're claiming that Ariovistus was allied with Caesar?

I don't think industrialized nations can really be compared to ancient tribes... what are the self-propelled artillery- Bartix olyphonts?

how are the Germans vastly overrated when everyone diminishes what actually happened and ignore the huge cultural influence of Celts and Germans, calling it "Dark" simply because Roman bureaucracy/civilization was changed? Franks and Anglo-Saxons proudly claim Roman-heritage these days (and have been for quite a while), forgetting any tie to a Germanic past, so I don't really see where anyone is claiming what you say. WW1 and WW2 wouldn't have even happened if the French and British felt any affinity to Germanic "brothers."

BTW, by your own standards then, who HAS lived up to your expectations... did the Celts of La Tene have vast empires as enemies whom they conquered with ease? Did the Romans have to fight Alexander and his empire? Methinks the Roman land-grab and easy adoption of fragmented and destabilized Hellenistic culture and administration in the East is much more pathetic in triumph while we're using comparison.

[NeoSpartan]

hey... wtf are u guys talking about??? Why are u all looking and arguing about Germany in 19th, and 20th Century????



EB Celts, Germans and Romans.

[blitzkrieg80]

hey... wtf are u guys talking about??? Why are u all looking and arguing about Germany in 19th, and 20th Century????



EB Celts, Germans and Romans.

Haha Nicely said... sorry for the hijack

"looking?"

damn, i didn't know I looked 19th century, I feel so old but at least Erebus called me 'lad'!

[-Praetor-]

hey... wtf are u guys talking about??? Why are u all looking and arguing about Germany in 19th, and 20th Century????

Godwins law

( "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." )