Results 1 to 30 of 585

Thread: Celtic overpowered!

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1

    Default Re: Celtic overpowered!

    Quote Originally Posted by Frostwulf
    ......As you have said other peoples have used mercenaries as did Caesar. As you know there were plenty of Romans to fill in the ranks, so why did they use Celts,Numidians,Germans etc.? I have read from a few authors that they think the Gauls had used German mercenaries before, and Gallic alliances are constantly shifting. I have pointed out that the Po Valley Celts called upon the Gaesatae of 30,000 men, so this might not be so unusual. Also during this time the Belgic tribes used Germanic mercenaries.
    ....

    nonononononononono....close... but not there... maybe I need to clarify myself some more:

    I am not talking about the sovereign hiring large numbers of mercenaries and leading them to battle like Hannibal did.

    I am talking about the sovereign calling on a large number of foreign troops, which are led by a foreigner. And that foreign leader and his troops are not under control of the sovereign.

    To use the Po Valley Celts as an example:
    -The Po Valley Celts hired/called on the Gaesatae (btw that organization was no longer in existence by the time Ceasar and Arventicus showed up ) because they could not take on the Romans themselves. But still, the Po Valley Celts had a good deal of control or say on the movements, and battle position of the Gaesatae. HOWEVER, in the case of Caesar, he was not working in close conjunction, or under the direction of any Gallic tribe. There was no telling him where to move his troops inside Gaul, let alone telling him where to put his troops in battle. Same issue with the Suebi king.

  2. #2
    Member Member Gaius Valerius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    west-vlaanderen lol
    Posts
    53

    Default Re: Celtic overpowered!

    their weren't many 'real' german tribes at the time of caesar. that is, from a linguistic point of view. the rhine wasn't a linguistic/cultural border till the time of august. its hard to make a distinction in 'civilisations' when no written evidence (from themselves) is present. archeologically speaking we find the same items east/west of the rhine.

    archeologist tend to make a difference between celtic speaking 'germans' at the time of caesar and german speaking 'germans' at the time of caesar. a migration took place between these 2 rulers. caesar spoke of germans only to justify he didn't march east of the rhine (he was there to conquer gaul, since they kicked his ass east of the rhine they weren't germans , smart dude he was )
    "If you must break the law, do it to seize power: in all other cases observe it.” J. Caesar

    BAN-KAI!!!! Ichigo Kurosaki

  3. #3
    Speaker of Truth Senior Member Moros's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    13,469

    Default Re: Celtic overpowered!

    Hi Gaius, Great to see other Belgians over here.
    Are you studying History or Archeology?

  4. #4
    Member Member Gaius Valerius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    west-vlaanderen lol
    Posts
    53

    Default Re: Celtic overpowered!

    Quote Originally Posted by Moros
    Hi Gaius, Great to see other Belgians over here.
    Are you studying History or Archeology?
    History in Ghent, though the knowledge is based on pre & proto-geschiedenis, which is from the department of archeology
    "If you must break the law, do it to seize power: in all other cases observe it.” J. Caesar

    BAN-KAI!!!! Ichigo Kurosaki

  5. #5
    Speaker of Truth Senior Member Moros's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    13,469

    Default Re: Celtic overpowered!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius Valerius
    History in Ghent, though the knowledge is based on pre & proto-geschiedenis, which is from the department of archeology
    Ah, too bad. I was hoping you studied in Leuven. (like me)
    Doing history myself, first year though.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Celtic overpowered!

    Sorry been dealing with another thread as well as not having much time on my hands.
    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSpartan
    I am talking about the sovereign calling on a large number of foreign troops, which are led by a foreigner. And that foreign leader and his troops are not under control of the sovereign.

    To use the Po Valley Celts as an example:
    -The Po Valley Celts hired/called on the Gaesatae (btw that organization was no longer in existence by the time Ceasar and Arventicus showed up ) because they could not take on the Romans themselves. But still, the Po Valley Celts had a good deal of control or say on the movements, and battle position of the Gaesatae. HOWEVER, in the case of Caesar, he was not working in close conjunction, or under the direction of any Gallic tribe. There was no telling him where to move his troops inside Gaul, let alone telling him where to put his troops in battle. Same issue with the Suebi king.
    Ariovistus and his troops were under the leadership of the Sequani. Ariovistus decided after defeating the Aedui to turn on his employer the Sequani and subjugate them.

    It does appear that I was wrong that there was a stalemate between the Aedui and Sequani.
    Arthur D. Khan-"The Education of Julius Caesar"-"Some years earlier the Aeduians, the most powerful of the Gallic tribes, had engaged in a war over river tolls with their neighbors the Sequanians. The Sequanians had called in German mercenaries under the Suebian chief Ariovistus and inflicted a major defeat on the Aeduans. Subsequently, the Sequanians, themselves threatened by the Germans, sought a reconciliation with the Aeduans against the common foe. Two parties arose within both tribes, one proposing to solicit aid against the Germans from the Helvetians, and the other seeking Roman intervention. While the Romans were preoccupied with the revolt of the Allobrogians, neighbors to the Helvetians and the Aeduans, a Helvetian chieftain plotted with an Aeduan chief and a Seqanian chief for mutual assistance in seizing power in their respective countries. Such an alliance among the three Gallic tribes could not be tolerated by Rome, and possibly at Roman instigation, the Helvetian, Orgetorix, was tried by his people and convicted of attempting to usurp supreme power. The Helvetians, however, continued their plans to migrate to the sea. With the general movement of semi-nomadic tribes in Central Europe, Rome feared the warlike Germans might occupy the Helvetian homeland.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius Valerius
    their weren't many 'real' german tribes at the time of caesar. that is, from a linguistic point of view. the rhine wasn't a linguistic/cultural border till the time of august. its hard to make a distinction in 'civilisations' when no written evidence (from themselves) is present. archeologically speaking we find the same items east/west of the rhine.
    I was curious to which tribes you consider 'real' German? My guess is your referring to the Suebi as being real Germans while the Belgae tribes not being 'real' Germans?

    @Power2the1 Thank you for posting Ranika's answer to what if the supposed "Devastating Civil War" never happened. I will try to find his post were he talks of it happening and what he has for proof. I might address some of the issues in the "what if" thread as well.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Celtic overpowered!

    This thread is like Chuck Norris
    HWÆT !
    “Vesall ertu þinnar skjaldborgar!” “Your shieldwall is pathetic!” -Bǫðvar Bjarki [Hrólfs Saga Kraka]
    “Wyrd oft nereð unfǽgne eorl þonne his ellen déah.” “The course of events often saves the un-fey warrior if his valour is good.” -Bēowulf
    “Gørið eigi hárit í blóði.” “Do not get blood on [my] hair.” -Sigurð Búason to his executioner [Óláfs Saga Tryggvasonar: Heimskringla]

    Wes þū hāl ! Be whole (with luck)!

  8. #8
    Member Member Gaius Valerius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    west-vlaanderen lol
    Posts
    53

    Default Re: Celtic overpowered!

    Quote Originally Posted by Frostwulf
    I was curious to which tribes you consider 'real' German? My guess is your referring to the Suebi as being real Germans while the Belgae tribes not being 'real' Germans?
    since these regions were at the time still in the phase of prehistory (or proto-history, a term referring to ppl which left no written evidence of their own - if you got your education in france though, you probably see protohistory as teh period from the first agriculture, being the neolithicum, well thats only a methodological difference), we depend on archeology. but its hard to see a difference in language based on parts of pots and weapons. basically no real difference can be seen between the ppl caesar called germans and the ones he saw as gauls, culturally that is. the rhine as border was mostly arbitrary and apologetic to explain why he stopped his conquests there. archeologist nowadays now for sure the culture on both sides was the same.

    the belgae were celtic but seemed to have claimed lineage with 'german' tribes to the north, yet looking at example the the language they used in names we know as 'ambiorix' the -ix suffix is celtic and refers to 'king'.

    so yes the belgae weren't real germans in terms of language. as i said the rhine effectively became a 'linguistic' border by the time of august.

    @Moros

    good luck in Leuven, but i've always been hooked on Ghent, and as i'm from west-vlaanderen, its also a lot closer. though the depart of letteren & wijsbegeerte is a nice building (sweet big libraries). couldn't find the entrance though the first time i came there
    "If you must break the law, do it to seize power: in all other cases observe it.” J. Caesar

    BAN-KAI!!!! Ichigo Kurosaki

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO