militia hoplites vs levy pikemen

[rs2k2]

So I've been checking up on different forums and I realized that people always choose militia hoplites over levy pikemen. Why is that? I always go up to levy if I can. Sure, their shield is only 2 compared to the hoplites' 5, but there are 50% more of them and they have longer pikes, which means an additional row of attackers. That, and the fact that they have an attack rating of 6 vs the hoplites' 5.

Now, if I'm being shot at by arrows all day, hoplites would be far better, but against hastati or other hoplites, I'd feel a lot better with the longer pikes.

So convince me that militia hoplites are better.

[professorspatula]

I agree with you when it comes to Levy Pikemen. If left on guard mode to stand there, they can usually hold their own for a bit, and are better at blocking streets during siege battles. That said, I'm sure phalanx formations break up much easier than they used to, so they're pretty hopeless in hand to hand, worse than the hoplites.

I can't remember, but I think the upkeep per unit works out the same, so you might as well have a 240 man unit (based on huge setting) than a 160 man unit for garrison duties.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Hi rs2k2,
I generally agree with you on most accounts. However, I do believe that, against the all-powerful Hastaii, the humble Militia Hoplites probably have a much better chance. This is due to the strong volly of almighty Pilla which the Hastatii throw before entering combat - it really can cause very serious damage to anything with very small shields such as the disadvantaged phalanx.

[professorspatula]

Yes, but the AI Hastati usually throw just one volley before charging your phalanx, and even then there should be more pikemen left over than there would be hoplites. When the Hastati charge, a lot more of them probably end up impaled on the end of the pikemen's spears as well. I haven't used standard vanilla RTW stats for ages, but anyway, the levy pikemen can be spread out much further (just 4-5 ranks deep) so they present a wider front to the Hastati et al, thus preventing the enemy infantry from wrapping around their ranks and killing them that way. It's often the way phalanx units end up dying - not from the centre, but from the sides. Of course, against multiple enemies and lots of missile troops, you probably would prefer hoplites as levy pikemen are indeed like pincushions in that respect.

[guineawolf]

i choose militia hoplites coz they survive better when they get shot by archers.And they can fight better at the wall than levy pikeman when it is needed.But if you are guarding the street,i would suggest levy pikemen coz the longer pike,and enemy will have no way to flank them,except get another route to get behind them,or take them down by arrows..

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Sorry professorspatula, yet I was thinking more about in an attack when the AI turns the Hastatii's "fire at will" mode on. There is three throws worth of almighty pilla with them which could easily devastate the poor quality levy pikemen and lower their already poor quality morale. Unfortunately, against poor quality units, the Hastatii's pilla seems to have the tendency to cause them to route before the units even enter melee combat.