My only gripe with EB

[ZhaZ]

The speed of battles is simply too slow. It makes the battles more tactical, it is true, but things are getting too far. I end up experiencing much more similar battles in EB than in vanilla.

But mainly I lose atmosphere. Phalanxes looks very strange locked together without any units dying or anything going on. It takes forever to kill of the last units and looks silly when 2-3 units are surrounded by hundreds and still taking time to die.

Is it only me? I would love to have some optional version where units have less hp and battles are a tad faster.

[Gabeed]

Units having less hp won't help you: I'm just starting up this game, and finding that there are virtually no infantry units with multiple hit points (gaestatae seem to be an exception : D) Even bodyguards have only 1 hp, which I love because it makes them not invicible. The difference seems to be that units seem to have a lower attack and higher defense than before.

[Meothar]

That's why I play my battles on double speed ;)

I think the low movement speed is the biggest disadvantage of EB. It may be realistic, but it takes hours until armies finally meet on battlefield.

[Karielle]

I'm pretty sure only Gaesatae and the generals/family members themselves have more than one hp.. The exact reasons for the difference between EB and vanilla battles I'm not familiar with, but I find the former highly immersive and just plain enjoyable myself. What do you mean by losing atmosphere?

[Enguerrand de Sarnéac]

Then EB isn't the right mod I suppose...It's aimed for maximum realism, and even one hour for an actual battle is short compared to ancient battles.
Unit HP won't really help to speed things a little up; for instance your phalanxes aren't protected by high hitpoint values, but by their formation and armour... It's all balanced, believe me. You can't hope to win if you don't use tactics (especially for those bloody phalanxes of yours )

The EB team probably won't make another version for a more excited gameplay; there are mods enough to do that (can't say I speak for the team though) I suppose EB will stick with it's own, addicted audience

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

It is entirely possible to shatter your enemy quickly, but it requires tactics, surround them, kill their general, rain flaming arrows on them.

As to the Phalanx, let me give you a piece of advice, use some of that time to appreciate that there are two groups of men locked in deadly combat on your computer screen.

[Watchman]

Even phalanx pushes can sometimes get pretty dramatic. Once very early into a campaign I was rather rudely surprised when the sole enemy Pantodapoi Phalangitai unit attacked in very deep formation and simply cleft apart my rather thinner-deployed sole equivalent pike unit, quickly causing severe casualties and requiring the intervention of several other units to prevent a complete disaster on that part of the line.

Me like.

[Lysander13]

Yea realistic battles totally stink.....It's annoying having to actually use tactics and stuff to win battles...I'd much prefer to go back to the vanilla days when units routed on contact.

[The Celt]

Whats so bad about phalanxes? In my campaigns all the AI ever recruits is loads of skirmish units and some Theruphoroi(sp?). And on occasion I might see a pantopoi Phalangetai.(Which my cavalry make mincemeat out of.)So whats so hard about phalanx armies again? Or more importantly, WHERE are the phalanx armies?

[vonsch]

See, I am of the opposite mind. I just fought a battle, odds slightly in my favor, but I wanted to preserve certain units that I wanted back on the road immediately from damage, and allow the local garrison to absorb what damage had to happen. This is very hard to do with vanilla or most mods. The pace is just too fast in battle, even on normal speed.

But in this case I could charge my HA I wanted unharmed around the flank to the rear to put their arrows to use, and allow my foot archers to accept the charge of the light spears that were mostly what the enemy had. Meanwhile, a couple bodyguard units pinned and surrounded the one young noble cav unit that was the threat to my HA units since they too have bows and speed.

No way I would count on a foot archer unit (of the first tier, basic sort) to hold against light spears for long enough to make this work. The one unit charged took about 20 losses. Then the rest of my cav killed their general and routed the other two spears (total 4 spears and 1 light nobles) and still had time to charge the rear of the spears pinned by the archers, routing them instantly too.


But the cav on cav (mostly) battle I fought last night was long and bloody and gripping. Cav does not melee well, so to do much damage you have to pull it out and recharge it over and over while pinning the target with something (in this case, more cav, I had them take turns). If you try to just let the cav forces hack at each other until conclusion, you may as well go out to dinner... or autoresolve. But if you exercise tactical command, you stay busy and interested. And you have more time to do so with EB because units are more durable.

Tactics actually work, and you have time to employ them. But the AI does too, so keep an eye on it. Once it a while it manages to pull off a nice flanking move if you just sit.

[mlc82]

I've always been under the impression that phalanx on phalanx battles weren't all that bloody until one side or the other broke and ran.

[RabbitDynamite]

Yes, phalanxes do have verrry slow kill rates. They aren't supposed to be the deadly mincing machines of Vanilla, their primary purpose is to pin the foe in place so something else can deliver the killing blow.*

Mind, if one two phallanx units fight with one having a height advantage, or one manages to "catch" another in formation phallanx in the flank, things can get bloody.

*Historically, wasn't the decline of the successor states partially because that they neglected their missile and cavalry arms, and the all phalanx armies were much less effective?

[antisocialmunky]

Yes, phalanxes do have verrry slow kill rates. They aren't supposed to be the deadly mincing machines of Vanilla, their primary purpose is to pin the foe in place so something else can deliver the killing blow.*

Mind, if one two phallanx units fight with one having a height advantage, or one manages to "catch" another in formation phallanx in the flank, things can get bloody.

*Historically, wasn't the decline of the successor states partially because that they neglected their missile and cavalry arms, and the all phalanx armies were much less effective?

Yeah, more of less. One of the big reasons was the depletion of the cavalry arm by the Sucessor Wars.

[Watchman]

And them pesky horsemen take a while to train.

[Spoofa]

Hammer and Anvil, Good tactic, bad execution and lack of the correct manpower to carry it out effectively.

[Zim]

I like the slow battles, but I think you could shorten them by playing the Romans. A combo of their best troops and local mercs = short battles, if you flank
correctly.

EB battles are a bit slower, but not too bad. I got used to them fairly quickly.