Israeli influence in U.S. - the big picture

[Adrian II]

Israeli spies are stopped or arrested in the U.S. all the time. American diplomatic personnel are tracked and supervised by Israeli agents. Israeli telecom firms with Israeli headquarters monitor American government communications. Israeli moles or visiting scientists steal military secrets and allegedly sell them to third countries.

I read lots of official and/or reliable reports and documents about Israeli influence in the United States. Also lots of paranoid crap. So it's back to basics for Adrian II.

What exactly is this special relationship?

I would appreciate it if Americans and other knowledgeable members would fill me in on things I may be missing. How far does Israeli influence reach in the U.S. and what are the reasons, the aims, the ties, the lies?

What's the big picture?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

That's a good question.

Some of the continuing support is a result of the Holacaust and our collective sense of guilt that we didn't step in fast enough to avert it -- though I suspect this sense of guilt is not unique to the USA.

Our citizens of jewish ancestry have been fairly supportive of a state of Israel since the end of WW2. With some concentrations of Jews being fairly dense -- NYC & Florida for example, they had some ready connections in the HOR and the US Senate -- and New York was and is an important electoral state (and Florida has become so). This explains some of the ongoing political capital available to them.

On the other hand, this does not explain why we do not (to ky knowledge) extract some kind of a price for Mossad's actions inside the USA and have turned a lenient eye towards Israeli attacks on the the USN etc.

I will need to think on this more.

[Adrian II]

I will need to think on this more.

I know you are doing a lot of (re)thinking on the Iraq war lately. So am I.

When we discuss the root causes of that episode, isn't Israel the elephant in the room? Or at least the zebra?

[Pannonian]

I know you are doing a lot of (re)thinking on the Iraq war lately. So am I.

When we discuss the root causes of that episode, isn't Israel the elephant in the room? Or at least the zebra?

Careful, or you'll be accused of anti-semitism.

[Adrian II]

Careful, or you'll be accused of anti-semitism.

Are elephants Jewish?

[Crazed Rabbit]

I know you are doing a lot of (re)thinking on the Iraq war lately. So am I.

When we discuss the root causes of that episode, isn't Israel the elephant in the room? Or at least the zebra?

What do you mean by that?

CR

[Tribesman]

When we discuss the root causes of that episode, isn't Israel the elephant in the room?

Only so far as if you are looking at the bigger picture , of which Iraq is one small but currently messy part .
One sign of this would be the Saudi statements that accompanied the resending of the old peace deal offer , they are attempting to take back their big player status from Iran . A result of that attempt has been seen in the Israeli objections to the US arms shipments .

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I know you are doing a lot of (re)thinking on the Iraq war lately. So am I.

When we discuss the root causes of that episode, isn't Israel the elephant in the room? Or at least the zebra?

An interesting point.

If you asked a goodly number of us, the sample would show you that fewer than 1 in 5 could spell out the connection between our support of Israel and the war in Iraq. Though a far greater number could give you a well-versed discussion of Sanjaya's success on Idol. [I'm not even sure if that's how his name is spelled]

If you were to ask the same question of virtually any arab group in the Middle East, I'd guess half or more of them could give you a gloss of it.

Heck yeah, if we cut Israel off completely -- no UNSC vetos, no aid, no preferred purchaser status for weapons, must renounce US citizenship to accept Israeli citizenship -- there are many in the arab world who would view us as "regaining our senses" and -- at least in limited fashion -- treat us with less contempt. But the alliance has a lot of history and the 5+ decades of support rendered already will not be forgotten for some time -- nor forgiven by a goodly number. So what's to be done?

[Beirut]

I would appreciate it if Americans and other knowledgeable members would fill me in on things I may be missing. How far does Israeli influence reach in the U.S. and what are the reasons, the aims, the ties, the lies?

What's the big picture?

In his book, By Way of Deception, former Mossad agent Victor Ostrovsky said 90% of Israeli foreign ops are run out of Canada. This goes hand in hand with another claim that Israeli agents stole a shipment of one thousand blank Canadian passports. Which also goes hand in hand with Israeli agents arrested while using Canadian passports as cover in an assassination attempt.

[Strike For The South]

You want to know the big picture. Isreal has America by the balls.

[Hepcat]

In his book, By Way of Deception, former Mossad agent Victor Ostrovsky said 90% of Israeli foreign ops are run out of Canada. This goes hand in hand with another claim that Israeli agents stole a shipment of one thousand blank Canadian passports. Which also goes hand in hand with Israeli agents arrested while using Canadian passports as cover in an assassination attempt.

Last year sometime there were 2 Mossad agents caught using false passports in New Zealand. It makes no sense. Why would Israel want to spy on us? Are they plotting a sheep heist or do they want to steal the kiwi fruit like China?

[KafirChobee]

Since Carter things have changed. Carter knew that by taking Egypt out of the equation to invade Israel that the other arabstates couldn't. It was, and is that simple. And, it only cost us one life - Sadat's (the bravest man of the last century). Those that want to trash Carter over this acheivement - feel fee to. Of course, in all fairness I hope you also slam the god Reagan for his screwing everything up that Carter left for him (diplomaticly that is - after all Cartet did leave him s

Thing is, we owe Israel nothing. They have used spys against us and withheld information vital to our security; unless it would further their own objectives.

I've said this before, and it has been ignored. but .... pay attention to the reality or get lost in the quagmire of rightist thought.
It's a bitch for some to accept reality.


personally, living in a dream has an appeal - but facing reality is practicle to those that think ... for themselves.

[Adrian II]

There are direct and indirect ties between the two governments.

The most important indirect tie is the Israel lobby in the United States. And it's Likudnik. It is not a "Jewish" lobby: a sizeable portion of Jews in the world and in the U.S. don't care about Israel, and those who do don't necessarily agree with AIPAC and the other major organisations in the lobby. This Likud lobby is rich, influential and very active. That is nothing special as far as lobbies go. The point is that of all powerful lobbies in the U.S. (oil, arms, farmers, NRA, doctors, lawyers, pharceutical industry) this one has intensive foreign involvement and strings attached.

Then there is the high level of official cooperation, more intense than with any other U.S. ally. And it seems Israel is abusing this level of cooperation more than any other ally (espionage and theft, but also the feeding of fake intelligence to the U.S.).

[Adrian II]

Carter knew that by taking Egypt out of the equation to invade Israel that the other arab states couldn't. It was, and is that simple. And, it only cost us one life - Sadat's (the bravest man of the last century).

Snag!

It cost a little bit more than that.

Look up the numbers in the USAID Greenbook. Since the end of WWII the United States has transferred grants (not loans or other instruments, just plain grants) for a total of $93 billion to Egypt and $153 billion to Israel alone. The bulk of this assistance was given after Camp David. And I am not counting other Arab countries in the region who have made peace with Israel or changed their stance toward Israel under American pressure.

Israel is the only U.S. aid recipient that does not have to account for the way it spends the aid money. Among other things, the U.S. aid money is spent on Israeli settlement building and other activities that run counter to proclaimed U.S. Middle East policy.

link (in the options menu, pick Standard Greenbook Report)

EDIT
Makes you wonder how much of that U.S. aid to Israel is funnelled back to the U.S. to help influence U.S. policy toward .. Israel.

[Azi Tohak]

I'm of no help trying to figure out cloak and dagger stuff like this. Seems to me our media roundly condemned Israel for going after the-garbage-heap-formerly-known-as-Lebanon.

I am very much pro-Israel myself, but I think that is more leftover from my very anti-Arab papa. I respect that Israel has been able to make a sovereign nation from kibbutz and illegal aliens. I do not like how by its simple existence it manages to antagonize every Moslem country in the world.

I do think the world would be happier had Israel never been created by fiat by the UN. But I think all those countries would still find some reason to hate the West.

Not that it matters now. The only thing that would kick 'em out of that precious little strip is the Second Coming or some devastating weapons.

Azi

[Grey_Fox]

Last year sometime there were 2 Mossad agents caught using false passports in New Zealand. It makes no sense. Why would Israel want to spy on us? Are they plotting a sheep heist or do they want to steal the kiwi fruit like China?

It's not considered the smartest thing in the world to go straight from Israel to Iran, it tends to tip off the authorities. Intelligence agents go from their original country to maybe 3 or 4 others in order to make it seem like they are coming from there.

[Fragony]

What's the big picture?

There was a pretty good and lenghty article in the NRC monthly a few moths back, 'de wurggreep van de Israelische Lobby', couldn't find it but maybe you have better luck.