Virginia Tech shooting

[TevashSzat]

The big controversy over this will be that 2 people were initially killed in a dorm building, but the school didn't stop classes and there was nothing like a lockdown since the killer was supposed to have been off campus. It was only a majority of the killings occurred 2 hours later when the person started shooting in the engineering building.

I don't care if the killer has gotten away, 2 students have died on school property in a dorm housing 900 people, I would at least stop classes for the day which might have prevented the later massacre

[Scurvy]

The big controversy over this will be that 2 people were initially killed in a dorm building, but the school didn't stop classes and there was nothing like a lockdown since the killer was supposed to have been off campus. It was only a majority of the killings occurred 2 hours later when the person started shooting in the engineering building.

I don't care if the killer has gotten away, 2 students have died on school property in a dorm housing 900 people, I would at least stop classes for the day which might have prevented the later massacre

would it be possible to stop classes that quickly? 900 people are a lot to communicate too, and it seemed at the time as though the incident was over, i can't think of an incident where their have been 2 seperate shootings --> any action tkane like closing the school could also have negative consequecnes, it would cause much uneeded panic, especially as these things tend to get exagerated etc..

basically, it's easy to criticise with the benefit of hindsight...

If something positive and long lasting does come out of this then good. I'm fed up with in every walk of like empty platitudes for a few days / weeks then everything returns to how it was before.

--> sadly it will soon be forgotten...

GUNS ARE BANNED ON CAMPUS (and on mine, everything down to airsoft guns are too).
As with most college campuses, having a gun on campus will get you expelled.

Is this generally adhered too? (rules are too often broken)

If they had not disarmed all the victims, this might have gone very differently.

lets just have 200 people with guns instead of 2, thats really going to solve the problem of shootings....

[Crazed Rabbit]

Is this generally adhered too? (rules are too often broken)

Yes. Rules were you get kicked out of college (have fun applying to the next one!) are generally listened to.

lets just have 200 people with guns instead of 2, thats really going to solve the problem of shootings....

You assume the false logical premise that gun ownership or prevalence increases the level of violence.
Good people do not become crazy psychos when they pick up a gun, picking up a piece of metal doesn't alter the chemicals in their brains and make them lash out.

And yes, having the students at VT armed would have helped - they could have fought back. Instead, the shooter had thousands of unarmed potential targets, and could freely attack them without fear of retaliation.

EDIT: Michelle Malkin has an email from a student at VT on her blog ( http://michellemalkin.com/archives/007319.htm ):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Dear Michelle,

I was in Norris Hall today when the shootings took place. I thought I'd give you my account in case you wanted more information.

It was just a regular day in class; the door was open and we heard a pop-pop-popping noise. Sounded like some kind of construction but it was getting disruptive so we went to close the door, and one of the girls stepped out in the hallway to see what it was. She saw the gun and ran back inside the room and slammed the door shut and we all got down on the floor.

We heard pretty much continuous shooting for the next minute or so, and I said, "Shouldn't we barricade the door," because we were sitting ducks with no way out inside that room if he opened the door. A couple more people floated the idea that "We need to barricade the door, NOW." But I was too scared to even move, much less move the teacher's desk.

Finally one of the guys in the front of the classroom was brave enough to get up and move the desk in front of the door to prevent outside entry. About twenty seconds later, the shooter rattled the doorknob trying to get in. When he couldn't get in he fired two shots through the door (single solid piece of wood) and left. We heard him go in to 206 (the room across the hall) and shoot the people in that room. If we hadn't put the barricade up when we did, I and all my classmates would be dead.

When the police arrived five minutes later we heard them call for him to surrender his weapon and some more, irregular shots. Another five minutes later the police knocked and yelled "Police!" and we yelled "How do we know?" and when a second voice confirmed that it was in fact police, we opened the door. An officer came in and told us to line up single file, take nothing with us (I grabbed my coat) and run out the door single file while another officer escorted us.

We entered the hallway. Blood, bullet casings, and empty pistol clips were everywhere; this was definitely the most horrifying sight of my entire life. We ran past quickly. A door to the stairwell had been opened and there was a massive trail of blood; we found out later that a class had tried to escape only to find that the monster had chained the doors shut before starting his rampage. They were all killed.

We all ran to a nearby building and stayed there until we could be processed, and that was the end of it. Thank you all for your concerns and prayers, but please mostly pray for those who were seriously injured or hurt today.

Also, let me say that the response from the campus, local, and state police was exemplary. Within five minutes of the first shots, police were gathering outside. In another ten minutes, the threat had been neutralized and the building was secure. My heartfelt gratitude goes out to the brave men and women who kept us safe today.

--Jacob Simmons
junior, Computer Engineering, Virginia Tech

Good God. Sounds like the police response when the second shootings started was good.

Crazed Rabbit

[KukriKhan]

Let's all maintain some sense of decorum on behalf of the dead and bereaved.

Today is not the time to dissect pro- and anti-gun arguments. Let's wait a day or two, until more details emerge, and families have had time to bury their dead.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Is this generally adhered too? (rules are too often broken)

Having taught for 7 different colleges over the course of 20 years, I can say that the answer is, for the most part, yes.

Numerous small pocket knives/nail clippers are carried and nobody ran around prohibiting people from having decorative letter openers, so the ban wasn't absolute, but I was aware of only one gun on campus (and that was carried unloaded with a trigger lock in place by an off-duty police officer who'd forgotten to put it in her lock-box in the trunk of her car).


Rabbit:

I'm not sure that weapons in the hands of students would have helped (though the ones with the discipline to get the concealed permits are often the most responsible owners). Shooting is one thing, shooting accurately under high-stress situations is another, and all the guns in the world are pretty valueless unless the shooter can hit a target under those conditions.

Of course, my solution would be to make gun ownership and training mandatory, so our USA gun-haters wouldn't like my solution.

EDIT: just read your latest post. The quick-thinking chap in the front of the room should have about 20 other sets of parents chipping in for his education for the next year or two til he graduates. Lacking a gun, he did everything right during a crisis.

Okay, yeah, maybe if that one had been armed, the shots going back out through the door might have ended it earlier.