Virginia Tech shooting

[Adrian II]

I hope Ice's friend and cousins are safe. I hope tempers have subsided somewhat. Shall we try again?

Two things have come up.
1. Why the strange two-hour delay between shots?
2. Why is this sort of thing happening?

To my fellow Europeans I would like to say: it happens frequently in the U.S. for the same reason why Europe has frequent wars and genocides. Cause we're all special, okay?
So let's have a nice thread for a change.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The one story I heard was that the guy came into the doorm and found his girlfriend with the RA and shot them both, and then game back later and shot all the other people. But the guy in the press conference said he did not believe that the girl in the first shooting was the girlfriend...almost the only info to come from the press conference.

I think it's happening because there are crazy people who do crazy things. Didn't that whiteman guy have a brain tumor and hear voices?

[Marshal Murat]

Asian male who shot a professor and tens of students, then goes to his GF's dorm and shoots her and friends.

[Csargo]

Some people just snap under the pressure.

[Kanamori]

I would say a cultural influence on crazy people tends to make these things happen more in the US...

Here, people are more prone to think that when they're snapping, they have to go shoot people in some giant blazing flame of glory... violence in general just seems to be more prevalant, talked about, and less taboo; people are easily influenced, which is also probably why it happens less elsewhere...

As to the other question, we'll have to wait and see I suppose... I don't know how reliable any of the details I've heard are, yet.

[Adrian II]

Some people just snap under the pressure.

I found a nice long fact-sheet on school schootings from the Chicago Sun-Times which includes an anaysis done by the Secret Service. It turns out shooters usually don't 'snap' and they don't have a 'history' either that allows for profiling.

If you ask me, Michael Moore was bang on in that movie. Canadians own about as many guns as Americans, yet make far less use of them because their society is different, infinitely more relaxed. There is a Hobbesian aspect to American society that goes a long way toward explaining these occurrences, I think.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I think Kanamori is on the mark.

What do you think of the campus administrations actions regarding not cancelling school? I think they made the right decision at the time personally.

[Ice]

I hope Ice's friend and cousins are safe. I hope tempers have subsided somewhat. Shall we try again?

Thank you very much, Adrian. That is very much appreciated. My friend is safe, I just talked to him. He's just really shaken up.

I talked to my father and he said he called his cousin and she said her daughters were both safe. Thank God.

[Hosakawa Tito]

The school should have been on lock-down till they could either find the shooter or verify he was gone from the campus. I think they were too complacent, and their lack of vigilance and situational awareness may have cost the lives of those in that class room. Since when is any shooting such a ho-hum business as usual affair?

[Del Arroyo]

It's been my hypothesis for some time that things like this happen because the drastic decay of "community" within the US. If an individual falls by the wayside, they are allowed to stay there. In the land of freedom and individualism, people are allowed to live with no social connections-- even if those connections are the thing they need the most.

But really, who knows? This latest will undoubtedly shed some light...

[Beirut]

Very sad thing. Such a waste.

I can't understand why the school was not locked down.

[rory_20_uk]

Why do these people never invest in silencers? Surely then they could execute far more people.

[Marshal Murat]

Tisk tisk....


The school thought they had caught the killer after his first attack, but then he killed again, and thus the school was locked down.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The school should have been on lock-down till they could either find the shooter or verify he was gone from the campus. I think they were too complacent, and their lack of vigilance and situational awareness may have cost the lives of those in that class room. Since when is any shooting such a ho-hum business as usual affair?

Well, it's not like the president has a red button on his desk which magically makes the campus safe. With 30,000 people it's the size of a small city and you can't shut down a small city for every murder. Hindsight is perfect of course, but I don't think there's ever been a killing spree with a 2 hour gap like that. At the time of the killing most of the commuters would be on their way there, and no one checks there email before hand. The first killing was in a dormitory anyway, how would canceling class help? Most campus's don't have the manpower to shut down quickly.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Why do these people never invest in silencers? Surely then they could execute far more people.

Don't even joke about that.

[edyzmedieval]

Why do these people never invest in silencers? Surely then they could execute far more people.

Old Rory and his jokes.

Me and my dad found it shocking. I mean, shoot 3-4, but more than 30? You're kidding. This is totally sick!

[rory_20_uk]

If he's got his right to bear arms, I'm damn well having mine to free speech.

So... what? We all go "terrible", "monstrous", "how could this ever happen??!?" and then basically nothing happens bar possibly a small plaque.

Ban guns on campus? Nah.

Killing 30 people is not much worse than killing 3. After you've got over the shock of murdering one person it becomes far more routine as one's conception of "normal" shifts.

[Kralizec]

This sucks. My condoleances to the family and friends of the victims, and I hope Ice doesn't need them.

[edyzmedieval]

If he's got his right to bear arms, I'm damn well having mine to free speech.

So... what? We all go "terrible", "monstrous", "how could this ever happen??!?" and then basically nothing happens bar possibly a small plaque.

Ban guns on campus? Nah.

Killing 30 people is not much worse than killing 3. After you've got over the shock of murdering one person it becomes far more routine as one's conception of "normal" shifts.

I fear to ask, how many people have died on your doctor shift?

[GeneralHankerchief]

If he's got his right to bear arms, I'm damn well having mine to free speech.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...30&postcount=1

Killing 30 people is not much worse than killing 3. After you've got over the shock of murdering one person it becomes far more routine as one's conception of "normal" shifts.

If only 3 people had been killed then I doubt that this would be discussed heavily right now. The reason why it is such a large thing is that it crushes the record for deaths in a school shooting.

The repercussions of this will be much more than just some plaque. The last big school shooting in the US, Columbine, has become so ingrained in our culture that we think nothing of having metal detectors installed in high schools.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Adrian II:

You finished with an interesting point. The potential impact of a more Hobbesian character (I assume from your post that you are referencing the Hobbesian state of nature and not the social compact in response to it) to our culture on such events would be pretty clear.

Counter Question:

Why do you view my culture as more Hobbesian? Please note, there is not a defensive tone to that question, it's just a straight query. What other cultures are more so or less so and why?

[rory_20_uk]

I know there's no Free Speech here. And it's a better place because of that.

If something positive and long lasting does come out of this then good. I'm fed up with in every walk of like empty platitudes for a few days / weeks then everything returns to how it was before.

[Hosakawa Tito]

Every institution should have a Red Book, an emergencies procedures plan, that covers a wide array of emergency situations, that the administration can use to guide them. The biggest problem in this situation seems to be communicating the emergency to those that need to know. You can bet after all the lawsuits that will ensue, that this lack of preparedness will be addressed. Unfortunately, the first thing that will get fixed is the blame.
Such a terrible, senseless tragedy. And some feel the need to make tasteless jokes and political statements....

[Bijo]

Why do these people never invest in silencers? Surely then they could execute far more people.

That is logical. Using silencers combined with a good amount of careful stealth.... they could even get away with their murdering if they're good :|


Regarding that shooting PDF:
The PDF article is annoying to read: it doesn't get to the point quickly and repeats things all the time. After reading about two pages I just skimmed through it. It doesn't really provide any solid answers, then again it's said basically they don't have 'em.

Also peculiar is the fact that the Secret Service has been investigating these cases with great interest. Why the heck the SS-- eh, I mean... Secret Service? Is this not something for the p'lice force?
There has been no progress we could say in avoiding these cases from happening, as they continue to happen, and the Secret Service is investigating it thoroughly? Sounds fishy and sucpicious.

But one thing caught my eye often there: those kids who plan shootings tell their peers and these peers don't take any action, nor are all of these kids listened to by elders. Peculiar, and in a certain way expectable.
Kids can be cruel human creatures and who knows what goes on in their minds regarding these killings, and how they all influence the whole shebang.

But my basic thought about this whole thing is this: " Pffff.... humans. *sigh* "

[TevashSzat]

The big controversy over this will be that 2 people were initially killed in a dorm building, but the school didn't stop classes and there was nothing like a lockdown since the killer was supposed to have been off campus. It was only a majority of the killings occurred 2 hours later when the person started shooting in the engineering building.

I don't care if the killer has gotten away, 2 students have died on school property in a dorm housing 900 people, I would at least stop classes for the day which might have prevented the later massacre

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Ban guns on campus? Nah.

Guns are banned on campus.

[Kanamori]

Rory, it would be my guess that weapons are banned on all US campuses, or at least almost all of them... I know they are on mine.

[Bijo]

Heh, I just realized the thread title looks a bit "wrong" as do the reply titles: a happy-looking SMILIE in front of 'Virgina Tech shooting'.

[Ice]

Guns are banned on campus.

Not just guns, but knives, mace, tasers, etc. Any type of weapon is banned on campus, atleast here.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Also peculiar is the fact that the Secret Service has been investigating these cases with great interest. Why the heck the SS-- eh, I mean... Secret Service? Is this not something for the p'lice force?
There has been no progress we could say in avoiding these cases from happening, as they continue to happen, and the Secret Service is investigating it thoroughly? Sounds fishy and sucpicious.

The Secret Service, at least the protective detail, spends a lot of time studying whack-job shooters. They are tasked with preventing such killings in the case of our key political executives. They keep working to develop profiles, insights -- anything that will let them learn how they can maybe stop such an attack on their charges.

Incidents like Squeaky Fromme must cost those folks a lot of sleep.