Virginia Tech shooting

[Sasaki Kojiro]

hmm anyone know anything about this:

[KukriKhan]

I hope the administration doesn't get in any trouble over this.

You mean the uni admin? There is growing rumbling, at least among students, that VT Admin should have cancelled all classes after the first shooting, especially since that perp (the same guy) was still at-large.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

You mean the uni admin? There is growing rumbling, at least among students, that VT Admin should have cancelled all classes after the first shooting, especially since that perp (the same guy) was still at-large.

Yeah. I disagree with that though. It's easy to say so in hindsight but there was a killing in dorm room that appeared to be domestic and the killer fled without shooting anyone else when he could have easily. In the vast, vast majority of murders the person doesn't decide to gun down an extra 30 people a couple hours later. There are dozens of killers on the loose in every city in the us, and if they canceled work for 30,000 people every time the world wouldn't function. It's doubtful this was a spur of the moment decision and he probably could have killed people anyway.

Too many people are acting like VT president said to himself "well, 32 people are going to die but it would be too much trouble to cancel classes so screw them, haha!".

[Xiahou]

Jesus Christ. Whoever didn't force him to see a psychiatrist regularly after that should be in big trouble.

I think it's a bit of PC run amok.

Lucinda Roy, a co-director of the creative writing program at Virginia Tech, taught Cho in a poetry class in fall of 2005 and later worked with him one-on-one after she became concerned about his behavior and themes in his writings.

Roy spoke outside her home Tuesday afternoon, saying that there was nothing explicit in Cho's writings, but that threats were there under the surface.

Roy told ABC News that Cho seemed "extraordinarily lonely—the loneliest person I have ever met in my life." She said he wore sunglasses indoors, with a cap pulled low over his eyes. He whispered, took 20 seconds to answer questions, and took cellphone pictures of her in class. Roy said she was concerned for her safety when she met with him.

She said she notified authorities about Cho, but said she was told that there would be too many legal hurdles to intervene. She said she asked him to go to counseling, but he never did.

Clearly, something was not quite right with this kid- yet there was nothing anyone could do because of "legal hurdles". In the end, all she could do was suggest that he get counseling- he had no obligation to do so and obviously didn't.

[Soulforged]

Society won't take care of that: they are too busy gaining more wealth, having more sex, consuming products, being individualistic, and generally satisfying their ego. What does society care? :|

They don't do jack, and when something untasty like this case occurs, it'll be forgotten soon enough.

Depressed fellows also don't want any help in principle, so it's very hard to give it anyhow.

On another note he could have done this so nobody forgets about his deeds, so the attention it brings is only more gas to the fire...

[JimBob]

What should young people do with their lives today? Many things, obviously. But the most daring thing is to create stable communities in which the terrible disease of loneliness can be cured.
-Kurt Vonnegut

He may be dead but he's as right as ever.

[CrossLOPER]

The Smoking Gun. com a copy of the shooter's bizarre 1-act play, for which he was referred to the uni counselling center.

THIS is the "macabre, grotesque, nightmarish scary script that scared people? Anyone who thinks this is anything more than bad writing is a bit frail. It actually kind of looks like a joke. Honestly, I would not have paid much attention to this guy. He so generic.
If they were so worried about some of his more extreme behavioral abnormalities they should have pointed him to a good shrink.

What should young people do with their lives today? Many things, obviously. But the most daring thing is to create stable communities in which the terrible disease of loneliness can be cured.
-Kurt Vonnegut

He may be dead but he's as right as ever.

Some people like to be left alone. Some people like being lonely. No need to touch them.

[Scurvy]

What should young people do with their lives today? Many things, obviously. But the most daring thing is to create stable communities in which the terrible disease of loneliness can be cured.

Some people like to be left alone. Some people like being lonely. No need to touch them.

--> to have a community you have to have people who are excluded from that community...

[econ21]

THIS is the "macabre, grotesque, nightmarish scary script that scared people?

Reading with the benefit of hindsight, I certainly find it all those things. It's clearly the work of a disturbed mind - the 13 year old boy's accusations ring alarm bells about the author's state of mind and are grotesque; the "plot" lacks any kind of credibility or logic giving it a nightmarish quality; and the undertone of violence is macabre.

Anyone who thinks this is anything more than bad writing is a bit frail. It actually kind of looks like a joke.

Context matters. If this were submitted by a light-hearted student, then I might think he was trying it on. But with someone who never mixes, spends 20 seconds before answering, wears shades in class etc, I'd take it as evidence that he has serious issues (as apparently his English professor did take it).

If they were so worried about some of his more extreme behavioral abnormalities they should have pointed him to a good shrink.

They did, AFAIK. Doesn't seem he was the kind of chap who would have responded to such "pointing" though.



On a different note, I just read some of the victim's profiles on MSN news - was the saddest thing I've read for quite a while. You look at the photos of the young students, full of life and enthusiasm. It does not get any easier reading about the elderly Holocaust survivor lying down to block the class room door.

[CrossLOPER]

Reading with the benefit of hindsight, I certainly find it all those things. It's clearly the work of a disturbed mind - the 13 year old boy's accusations ring alarm bells about the author's state of mind and are.....

I'm sorry, but I feel that at this time it is a little hard to tell what is relevant and what isn't relevant to the shooter's condition or if he had one.

Also, the "hindsight is 20/20" business is being a bit overused.

[ajaxfetish]

Also, the "hindsight is 20/20" business is being a bit overused.

I think 'overused' would only apply to the hindsight comment if people didn't continue saying what people should have done but didn't. Until then it's the most accurate and concise response to such assertions.

Ajax

[econ21]

I'm sorry, but I feel that at this time it is a little hard to tell what is relevant and what isn't relevant to the shooter's condition or if he had one.

Also, the "hindsight is 20/20" business is being a bit overused.

Hindsight is all we have - we can't read that play without knowing what that guy later did, any more than we can read Mein Kampf without knowing what it's author later did. I can't be sure how I would have reacted to that play script if I had read it before yesterday, but it does strike me as grossly inappropriate for a university class and the product of a disturbed mind. I can quite understand his classmates and professor thinking the same at the time. But maybe you are right and we are all just more "frail" than you.

[CrossLOPER]

Hindsight is all we have - we can't read that play without knowing what that guy later did, any more than we can read Mein Kampf without knowing what it's author later did. I can't be sure how I would have reacted to that play script if I had read it before yesterday, but it does strike me as grossly inappropriate for a university class and the product of a disturbed mind. I can quite understand his classmates and professor thinking the same at the time. But maybe you are right and we are all just more "frail" than you.

I know someone who, when they were younger, would write the same type of stuff when they were upset. They scribbled little pictures of people they didn't like and who hurt them falling into fire pits. They would act up and say bad things. They never hurt anyone. They never threatened anyone. They never killed anyone.

Cho's script is a "funfact". Hitler's Mein Kampf is a "funfact". We only pay attention to them because these people actually did something. Go to Live Journal, or MySpace or where ever and you'll see the same thing. Maybe in a little less detail than Mein Kampf, but in any case I'm sure that there's not going to be rivers of blood or all ending darkness descending all over the place because some nonconformist teen calls for it.

Think about it.

[KukriKhan]

So, CrossLOPER suggests that anyone's writing should be ignored as irrelevant, based on the number of non-executed poison-pen pieces published on the internet.

Is it therefore your opinion that any forensic inquiries into guys who have carried out their fantasies is useless as a predictor?

Should society-at-large merely step back, sheep-like, and accept the randomness of violence, without trying to understand its motivation, with an eye to preventing a recurrence?

[Hosakawa Tito]

I think that in this case, the problem is that even though he was identified as troubled, and offered counseling, there is no mechanism to compel or mandate that treatment.

What struck me when reports first came out on the police investigation was the utter lack of success they had finding anyone who could be remotely described as a friend of this person. He seems to have been totally alienated.

[Devastatin Dave]

?

Should society-at-large merely step back, sheep-like, and accept the randomness of violence, without trying to understand its motivation, with an eye to preventing a recurrence?

Yes.
If not, then we need to lock up all the muslims, christians, moaist, anarchists, fiction/history/fantasy authers, speech writers, comlumnists, editors, anyone that has ever written a nasty letter to the editor, and of course about 90 % of Org Backroom dwellers, along with you damned Mods because of the possiblity that violence might occure from what they have written in the past. There is no one, no situation, no act of nature, and no possiblity to predict this kind of ####. Face it, the guy was an and are unpredictable. So instead of pointing fingers and talking out of the hindsight manual of Removing Personnal Responsibility...
It happened.
Not a thing can be done about it or anything to prevent it in the future.
Everyone's time on earth is short and we are all sheep lined up for the slaughter.
Say a prayer for the poor folks that bought it this way but remember you might get it worse.

Now, cheer up, you're alive, live...

I love you guys (especially you Kukri, our little sheep herder) so be safe out there and love one another (except for Lemur, because he's a lower primate incapable of human emotions like love, so i nice tail rub will do).

[Hosakawa Tito]

Well Dave, at least I got to read this one before it gets bleeped out.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I know someone who, when they were younger, would write the same type of stuff when they were upset. They scribbled little pictures of people they didn't like and who hurt them falling into fire pits. They would act up and say bad things. They never hurt anyone. They never threatened anyone. They never killed anyone.

Cho's script is a "funfact". Hitler's Mein Kampf is a "funfact". We only pay attention to them because these people actually did something. Go to Live Journal, or MySpace or where ever and you'll see the same thing. Maybe in a little less detail than Mein Kampf, but in any case I'm sure that there's not going to be rivers of blood or all ending darkness descending all over the place because some nonconformist teen calls for it.

Think about it.

He wasn't recommended for counseling just because of his writing:

According to a professor who taught Cho in a poetry class in 2005, Cho was "extraordinarily lonely—the loneliest person I have ever met in my life." She said that he whispered, took 20 seconds to answer questions, and took cell phone pictures of her in class.

The point isn't that not everyone like that becomes a mass murderer, but they should all be helped anyway.


VVPeople aren't born crazy. Not usually anyway.VV

[Strike For The South]

I agree with Dave. I dont understand why yall are trying to understand why he did it. He was crazy and crazy people do crazy things. Some keep bottlecaps some join fourms and others massacre innocent people. It is horrible what this kid did and the commenwealths gun laws are retarded. A crazy man did a horrid thing and we need to move on. All this media BS about going inside the mans head is stupid A guy with a few nuts loose killed 32 people. Pay your respects and move on.

[Ice]

I agree with Dave. I dont understand why yall are trying to understand why he did it. He was crazy and crazy people do crazy things. Some keep bottlecaps some join fourms and others massacre innocent people. It is horrible what this kid did and the commenwealths gun laws are retarded. A crazy man did a horrid thing and we need to move on. All this media BS about going inside the mans head is stupid A guy with a few nuts loose killed 32 people. Pay your respects and move on.

I think what people are trying to understand, Strike, is what made the kid go crazy.

[Strike For The South]

I think what people are trying to understand, Strike, is what made the kid go crazy.

Some people are predisposed to violent behavior. Some people are born cazy. You dont jsut walk into a dadgum school kill two people come back and kill thirty more. The kid was insane and that is why he did this. Of course he had problems. News flash everyone has problems. Crazy people just dont react the same.

K
I
S
S

[Lemur]

Actually, this kid fits a lot of the known parameters for a gunman already. Top of the list is loner, followed by alienated, followed by singled out for therapy but refused or failed treatment. The only missing element is the classic "lives at home with his mother."

You always have to watch the quiet ones.

And DevDave, I may be incapable of love, but Crazed Rabbit and I are going to set up one heck of a petting zoo. Then you'll be jealous.

[CrossLOPER]

The point isn't that not everyone like that becomes a mass murderer, but they should all be helped anyway.

I agree with this. However, as DevDave said, it's random. He felt like killing, so he got some guns, learned to use them, and used them.

Simply put, a loner with an violent imagination does not make a mass-murderer.

[Devastatin Dave]

Simply put, a loner with an violent imagination does not make a mass-murderer.

Oh, i forgot about the loners... better lock them up as well.

[Kanamori]

Yes.
If not, then we need to lock up all the muslims, christians, moaist, anarchists, fiction/history/fantasy authers, speech writers, comlumnists, editors, anyone that has ever written a nasty letter to the editor, and of course about 90 % of Org Backroom dwellers, along with you damned Mods because of the possiblity that violence might occure from what they have written in the past. There is no one, no situation, no act of nature, and no possiblity to predict this kind of ####. Face it, the guy was an and are unpredictable. So instead of pointing fingers and talking out of the hindsight manual of Removing Personnal Responsibility...
It happened.
Not a thing can be done about it or anything to prevent it in the future.
Everyone's time on earth is short and we are all sheep lined up for the slaughter.
Say a prayer for the poor folks that bought it this way but remember you might get it worse.

Now, cheer up, you're alive, live...

I love you guys (especially you Kukri, our little sheep herder) so be safe out there and love one another (except for Lemur, because he's a lower primate incapable of human emotions like love, so i nice tail rub will do).

Why do you dress up everything you say like this?

[Devastatin Dave]

Why do you dress up everything you say like this?

Only for your enjoyment, Kanamori. Care to address what I said or shall I just wait for your usual response about my imbreeding ancestory?

[Kanamori]

There isn't anything to address besides that you think it's a ridiculous point, it's just sarcasm. People could actually learn something rather than just being laughed at. And, I already apologized for the inbreeding comment and was sorry. You can do better than pointing to that.

[Devastatin Dave]

EDIT: Just a teensy bit choleric. BG

[Kanamori]

I don't have any personal issues right now... You really think I'm a deep thinker?

[Csargo]

Yes.