"America at a Crossroads"

[KafirChobee]

A new documentary series began last (this) evening on PBS concerning Americans and the war in Iraq. Believe it is 10 hours or 5 nights total. The opening two one hour docs were excellent = Warriors, and Operation Homecoming: writing the wartime. It seems honest and promises to give uncompremising views from both sides of the debate on the war. Tomorrow nights will show the pro-war side, ought to be interesting.

FYI: http://www.pbs.org/weta/crossroads/

[Csargo]

Looks interesting. I'll have to make sure to remember when it comes on.

Thanks for the info.

[Odin]

I have seen this advertised on PBS, and to be honest I think we have discussed Iraq at nauseum in this country. The pros and cons have been mentioned so many times, that every rehash of them it begins to loose a measure of creadability.

The president is the polict maker on foreign policy and the war was authorized by congress. until congress enacts the will of the voters (is it 63% that want an end to the war or 58%?) we are going to be having the same conversations over and over and over.

Sorry to sound cynical, but anything short of the U.S. soldiers, thier families and the man on the street in Iraq Im not intrested in view the pros and cons of Iraq any further.

Been there done that.

[Bijo]

The president is the polict maker on foreign policy and the war was authorized by congress. until congress enacts the will of the voters (is it 63% that want an end to the war or 58%?) we are going to be having the same conversations over and over and over.

I thought weapons manufacturers, international bankers, and "certain Israeli influence" dictate foreign policy

[Odin]

I thought weapons manufacturers, international bankers, and "certain Israeli influence" dictate foreign policy

thats just liberal hogwash

[Whacker]

For better or worse I'm somewhat in the same boat as Odin; getting tired of hearing about it. I've heard plenty of arguments both for and against, and nothing has swayed my position to this point. Time to bring our boys (and girls) home.

[KafirChobee]

I have seen this advertised on PBS, and to be honest I think we have discussed Iraq at nauseum in this country. The pros and cons have been mentioned so many times, that every rehash of them it begins to loose a measure of creadability.

The president is the polict maker on foreign policy and the war was authorized by congress. until congress enacts the will of the voters (is it 63% that want an end to the war or 58%?) we are going to be having the same conversations over and over and over.

Sorry to sound cynical, but anything short of the U.S. soldiers, thier families and the man on the street in Iraq Im not intrested in view the pros and cons of Iraq any further.

Been there done that.

By your standard of interest, you would have been pleased with last nights offerings - it was all from the soldiers mouths.

Judging something without knowledge of it or ignoring it because it might change ones mind, seems to be the theme of the day in america. It doesnot make it right.



Also, calling a thing 'liberal' doesnot make it any less true.

[Odin]

By your standard of interest, you would have been pleased with last nights offerings - it was all from the soldiers mouths.

Judging something without knowledge of it or ignoring it because it might change ones mind, seems to be the theme of the day in america. It doesnot make it right.



Also, calling a thing 'liberal' doesnot make it any less true.

let me say right off the bat I will post what I want, when I want and how I want in the back room, on any topic I choose until a moderator instructs me otherwise.

If you dont like something I post, put me on your ignore list.

[KafirChobee]

Proves my point. thx

[Seamus Fermanagh]

let me say right off the bat I will post what I want, when I want and how I want in the back room, on any topic I choose until a moderator instructs me otherwise.

put me on your ignore list.

Odin, old bean, I suspect you'll get what you've wished for. See you in a few days.

btw, stunningly enough, I think I actually agree with Kafir' on this. Forcing yourself to absorb new info from a different perspective once in a while is useful -- I often listen to Colmes on the radio after Limbaugh and/or Boortz earlier that day. Amazing what it can do to broaden your own understanding.

That is, however, just my opinion. Feel free to decide upon an issue at your own pace and then to ignore all subsequent information at your discretion.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Here's a moderator's advice:

There's no need to insult each other over a disagreement. Try to be civil, or try not to post.

[Odin]

Proves my point. thx

Can you eloborate within forum rules?

[Odin]

Odin, old bean, I suspect you'll get what you've wished for. See you in a few days.

If you say so old bean.



[QUOTE]

btw, stunningly enough, I think I actually agree with Kafir' on this.

Forcing yourself to absorb new info from a different perspective once in a while is useful --

I agree, but its the "different perspective" part that I am not seeing here.

Feel free to decide upon an issue at your own pace and then to ignore all subsequent information at your discretion.

Well thanks Seamus I shall. Again if there was a new perspective or angle that hasnt been covered at nauseum I would happily listen, sadly that dosent seem to be a plausable end to this particular issue.

Ignoring tired old arguments are easy Seamus, but since its an open forum to post, im going to keep on keeping on.

However I wouldnt mind a smiley icon that has more then just a thumbs down finger. :)

[Odin]

"gangs of Iraq"

Witty title, I watched it, most of it tonight. Yep the security forces trained by the U.S. are primarily loyal to thier mullhas and not Iraq as a country. Got some nice rehash sadr's escapades though.

Didnt see anything new in the episode I watched. Anyone out there who watched it tonight gain a new perspective on the dynamics of Iraq?

If you can keep it civil I am definately all eyes, as I suspected it beat a dead horse.

[KafirChobee]

The soldiers perspective in eposes 3 and 4 were oustanding, I may have to buy them. The arguements of the Shia and Sunni against one another makes it hard not to realize that what is happening in Iraq ought to have been obvious to the war planner.
Will review - am sick as a dog, and missed the gangs one (did tape it).

[spmetla]

So far it has been an excellent series. While at times it seems to hold a slight against the US "War on Terror" after the second and third night I thought it for the most part fair. I found the report on Indonesia really interesting, I didn't know that Indonesia was having such problems, I thought it was just an occasional bombing and kidnapping like in the South of the Phillipines.

So far enjoying the report on the Muslim Brotherhood.

[KafirChobee]

Well, seems the original intent had a totally pro-war agenda - but, got cleaned up ... some ... and had the dialog of McNeil added to allow reality to creep into some of the points mad in some areas of the reports. Still, after they fired the propagandists and went into open discussion of what to do with it - it was determined to allow it, but to flatten it out a bit (move it a way from being a propaganda episode - it was delayed months from its original release).

http://www.msnbc.com/id/18080996/site/newsweek/
Oh, well - link sends one to msnbc and not to story. Type America at crossroads and the newsweek article can be found there.

Still, I thoroughly enjoyed it, as some of the episodes did in fact have a few interesting perspectives and the episodes on our troops (3 & 4) "Warriors", and "Letters ...") were excellent - it is hard to be unbiased about our troops.

The "Case for War" that Richard Perle (one of the war planners - though he denies it. And, proclaims himself a Democrat - though he hasn't voted one since LBJ) pretty much produced is a real hand-wringer. His claims that we really did find WMD seems a bit dim and that Saddam may have created a nuke in 5-10 years, but what the hey - we know from the start where he is coming from (the Whitehouse).

Anyone, ever seen: "Why Vietnam?". [if curious, try your local library. they may have a copy] It was produced in 1965 and was meant to justify or involvement in the war - and our expansion of it. It has Dean Rush, McNamara, LBJ and a few others giving the history of our involvement (this was prior to the "Pentagon Papers"), and the reason for us to persist. It was one of those doc's they showed new recruits in basic to convince them (though most of the RAs' already knew, self included ... at the time of my viewing it again in 67') that what we were doing was justified and imperative for the security of the nation. It was propaganda.

I think, the initial intent of those that began the project was the same as "Why Vietnam", putting a purely possetive spin on a negative situation. Can't blame them for trying, but the day for such nonsense has long passed.

[Bijo]

If I only had this in Holland, I'd be watching it. I assume it's some kind of American TV channel. That digital TV thing here isn't receiving it I think.

Know of any.... *whispers* "online sources of a certain kind" somewhere I might check out?

[Redleg]

If I only had this in Holland, I'd be watching it. I assume it's some kind of American TV channel. That digital TV thing here isn't receiving it I think.

Know of any.... *whispers* "online sources of a certain kind" somewhere I might check out?

PBS normally has an on-line website. Kafir linked it in his first post.