Sweboz

[SaFe]

Gawjam means Gau or in enlish translated region or still better district of...(inlude the name of the people/nation).
You have to know that during the timeframe EB displays there were no germanic cities. Germanics found it unpleasant to live in crowded areas.
At the turning poit in history some "cities" developed though, especially the Chattii (Hattoz) and the Ubii began to live together in great numbers.

[Teutobod II]

Gawjam means Gau or in enlish translated region or still better district of...(inlude the name of the people/nation).

I think in Latin it is "pagus" ?

[Moros]

If it is like the dutchword "Gouw" than in English it would be "Shire" (think of LOTR, the shire) and then it would indeed be pagus in Latin.

[Hegix]

Since it's Sweboz related, I'll do a little hi-jack here. In my latest Sweboz campaign I noticed that you can only build the Thengaz building before you put a government in the city. Can anyone confirm this?

[Varg1204]

the thengaz is the true government building, because the early Germanic society was based on equality of all free tribesmen and therefore the thengaz was the assembly of all free men of a tribe, where politics, crimes and everything else which was importand to the tribe, was discussed. So if there is a Germanic population in an area the thengaz is the first building to be built.

Even the Germanic army leader [=Herzog] (harjatugon in proto-germanic) for example is a voted man from the thengaz, who'll lose his power again after the war is over. this one will be included in the near future

[Hegix]

So it's supposed to be that if you build a government building first then your city cant have a thengaz at all? Besides, iirc your starting city doesn't have one, but I guess that is what the western greek WARNING!! building is supposed to be

[Moros]

Even the Germanic army leader [=Herzog] (harjatugon in proto-germanic)

That word resembles the Dutch word "Hertog" (which means duke in English) any connection between the words?

[Varg1204]

That word resembles the Dutch word "Hertog" (which means duke in English) any connection between the words?

well the Dutch word Hertog is completely the same as Herzog in German. They both derive from the same root (Harja in proto-germanic for army/Heer in German) while '-zog' is the German simple past of 'ziehen' (= to pull, but also to move) So Herzog/Hertog means word for word translated: "the one who moves the army/the one who pulls [in the sense of 'to lead'] the army." The proto-germanic word harjatugon (Herzog in modern German/Hertog in modern Dutch) is very old and survived in the modern West-Germanic languages like German and Dutch, allthough it's meaning changed copletely during the early Middle Age. In Germanic times it was the elected army leader of the tribe, while in the early Middle Age it became a high nobility title/rank, which can be translated as the English duke. Duke comes from latin 'dux/ducis' and has nothing to do with the original Germanic word, allthough it has got the same meaning since the early middle age.

[SaFe]

the thengaz is the true government building, because the early Germanic society was based on equality of all free tribesmen and therefore the thengaz was the assembly of all free men of a tribe, where politics, crimes and everything else which was importand to the tribe, was discussed. So if there is a Germanic population in an area the thengaz is the first building to be built.

The best way for EB to display the importance of the Thengaz (some may know it as Thing for Scandinavia) would be:
- All recruitment except the Gastiz and other Mercenaries should depend on it.
- The bonuses for Law should be much higher, also Happines and definately Loyality should be improved by the Thengaz.
- Every germanic province should start with a Thengaz - where you had to build one in conquered regions ( should not be too expensive, as only free germanics were allowed to vote )
- Because of the boni it give, perhaps make some other "building-types" more expensive.

The current boni are laughable comparing the importance of a Thengaz and it makes almost no sense to build it in already germanic settled provinces.

During the time i was responsible as FC i was told the boni were too high for a single "building". A game-balance decision was made.

Although perhaps it would be best just to give origin germanic provinces the Thengaz for free and integrate it in a MIC.
As i said the current display is not realistic and far from the truth.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Since it's Sweboz related, I'll do a little hi-jack here. In my latest Sweboz campaign I noticed that you can only build the Thengaz building before you put a government in the city. Can anyone confirm this?

It was put in a complex that could be built immediately, but it is causing problems (along with another building variant in that complex too), so I have had to move it to another one. It still is available at a very early level. We are extremely limited by our complex space. Now there won't be any strange issues with the building anymore though. A one level building *must* share with other factions though, so making it fast to build and very expensive (in order to balance all those bonuses that you suggest) would upset the balance and anyway the sweboz couldn't afford it if it was really high. Giving all those bonuses with it being really cheap definitely isn't feasible though. We can't adjust costs of buildings based on cost of one other one for one faction. (oh, also the loyalty bonus doesn't do anything in 1.5 it seems)

SaFe, I didn't realize all germanic provinces should already start with one. We can try to do that.

[SaFe]

Good to hear, Dave.
This is a complete ahistorical point in the current display of the tribes.
Especially the democratic aspect of the political aspect of the Thengaz is totally underdeveloped.

[Thaatu]

Do Germanic eleutheroi settlements have shrines in the beginning of the game? In my game all the villages I've conquered in the germanic heartland have shrines for the same god, the first one in the list of "unpronouncables". Were they there by default or did AI build the same one in each? I'd hate to upset the gods by destroying them... There must be some way to restrict the Eleutheroi from building certain things, like roads.