I bin defeated. Horribly. For the first time ever... And the AI made smart moves.

[Dayve]

I'm amazed. Somebody slap me, i must be dreaming. I just fought in Sicily, as Rome, against Carthage, with inferior troops save for 2 units of hired mercenary phalangites....

A full legion, on huge unit settings... 4 hastati, 4 principes, 2 triarii, 2 leves, 2 rorari, 2 accensi, 2 equittes, a general with great manegerial skills, massive influence, no good command traits but no bad ones either, and plenty of battle helping retinues like armorer and chirugeon...

Versus some Carthage crap units, skirmishers, cheap spearmen, 2 units of light cavalry and the two hired mercenaries with a 2 star general...

I attacked, they deployed on a hill, i had no choice but to march up the hill and attack them, they refused to be drawn down the hill by my slinger fire... The battle began, and for two hours it raged... Roughly 2700 of my men, versus about 1800 of theirs... I began by sending my hastati to fight the mercenary units which made up their first line, they quickly turned and ran after the skirmishers threw a few javelins at them. I sent in the principes, they fought for an hour alone with massive casualties, but inflicting almost none upon the phalanx... Their peltastai constantly attacked the flanks of my principes just as they began to envelope the phalanxes, and eventually the principes routed... I sent in the leves and rorari to hold the line as i rallied the cowards and formed them up once more. I attacked with a line of hastati and principes, but as before, they were beaten back by peltastai and thureopheoerieopiroeir attacking their flanks.

I recieved no opportunities to use my cavalry effectively, their flanks and rear were always protected by cheap spearmen units and a very nasty generals bodyguard of heavy cavalry with 60-odd men and quite a bit of experience that i really did NOT want to engage until i absolutely had to... I rallied everything i could and formed a long line, hoping to eventually be able to encircle some of their army and thin out their numbers.. The triarii went in, head on against the mercenary hoplites, they fought hard and for about 30 minutes while the rallied units attacked the skirmishers defending their flanks, eventually i made a breakthrough on the left... A chance to send in my cavalry and break the left flank! I sent them in, 200 equittes, charged the read of one of the phalanxes, only to have my cavalry encircled by fresh spearmen and a unit of medium cvalry and promptly slaughtered and routed... I managed to route their cavalry with my spearmen and continued to hammer away at the flank, then... Disaster... They committed their fresh spearmen and peltastai and attacked my line of reserves, which were depleted and tired units of accensi and leves, they were promptly slaughtered, their general attacked mine and their superior heavy cavalry beat his bodyguard down to nothing until he fled the battlefield, leaving the last two units still holding up, the triarii, to be encircled and slaughtered.

The end results? 2500 dead Romans, less than 1000 dead Cartheginians, an entire legion destroyed save for a few ragtag men, (Like 100 or so) that made it back to Messana. My legion in the north busy defending against the Aediu, a new one will have to be raised which will take 5 turns to make, 2 to form up and 3 to get to Sicily... Then the AI let itself down by laying siege to rebel Syracuse with their now experienced army and general, rather than attacking Messana that was defended by only a shamed general who fled from battle, 100 or so men from hastati/principe units, and a full unit of leves... It would have been a pushover, but alas, the legion is raised and ready.

CARTHAGO DELENDA EST!

[Southern Hunter]

Sounds like a good battle. Pity we don't see more like that. I would give anything for better AI.

[Little Legioner]

Hannibal ad portas!

Good AAR mate. Carthaginiensis are always cunning at art of strategy. They're worthy and honoroble foes in battle. They have a great unit roster. Very balanced phalanx and melee units plus good cavalry.

Besides, EB is like an delicious bottle of wine for me. Time passes but EB never lose its taste.

[CountArach]

Wow! That was great! Go AI!

I've had some recent things like this as well, but you'll have to read my AAr to find out about those . At least Book 2.

[Dayve]

They've actually done it... They've taken Messana, and the general that fled from the battle died in the process... They were too late though, my legion laid siege the very same turn they took the city, and unless they have something up their sleeves that i haven't seen, which is quite possible as my spy in the area was captured and killed, then their dreams of a white Sicily will never be realised... Sicily will be RED!

Caius Aurelius Cotta, though, the shamed general who fled from battle but redeemed his honour by fighting to the death in the cities center, has left behind 3 sons... 13, 9 and 2... Damn, this would be a great storyline for a proper AAR with pictures and stuff... Caius's three sons, gods bidding, shall grow up with a healthy hatred of the Cartheginians, and in time will conquer Carthage... (Or die trying like their father LOL!)

On a completely different note, i got a family member whose last name is Damian, which is my first name... Just found it funny, dunno why. I've decided to give him the legion to take back Messana, then the rest of Sicily... He has a son named Julius Helvetius Damian, 1 year old... I've decided he shall conquer Greece when the time comes, and hopefully he will also have sons and i can see for how long i can carry on my name in the game.

Roma victor!

[Cataphract_Of_The_City]

Nice...although you could have forced them of the hill by splitting and attacking from two directions. The AI will usually try to maneuver to cover both directions but if your careful with your maneuver you can make them retreat. I think you should have sent both your equites to engage the enemy general using your general to delay spear units.

Btw, I find it very strange that Hastati actually fled before the lines joined. Are you playing on VH? what was your supply status?

[Thaatu]

On a completely different note, i got a family member whose last name is Damian, which is my first name... Just found it funny, dunno why. I've decided to give him the legion to take back Messana, then the rest of Sicily... He has a son named Julius Helvetius Damian, 1 year old...

I had an FM named Manius Manlius Damian. Is that the coolest name ever or what. He was the man.

[Jobst_vonGrünungen]

I'm amazed. Somebody slap me, i must be dreaming. I just fought in Sicily, as Rome, against Carthage, with inferior troops save for 2 units of hired mercenary phalangites....

A full legion, on huge unit settings... 4 hastati, 4 principes, 2 triarii, 2 leves, 2 rorari, 2 accensi, 2 equittes, a general with great manegerial skills, massive influence, no good command traits but no bad ones either, and plenty of battle helping retinues like armorer and chirugeon...

Versus some Carthage crap units, skirmishers, cheap spearmen, 2 units of light cavalry and the two hired mercenaries with a 2 star general...

I attacked, they deployed on a hill, i had no choice but to march up the hill and attack them, they refused to be drawn down the hill by my slinger fire... The battle began, and for two hours it raged... Roughly 2700 of my men, versus about 1800 of theirs... I began by sending my hastati to fight the mercenary units which made up their first line, they quickly turned and ran after the skirmishers threw a few javelins at them. I sent in the principes, they fought for an hour alone with massive casualties, but inflicting almost none upon the phalanx... Their peltastai constantly attacked the flanks of my principes just as they began to envelope the phalanxes, and eventually the principes routed... I sent in the leves and rorari to hold the line as i rallied the cowards and formed them up once more. I attacked with a line of hastati and principes, but as before, they were beaten back by peltastai and thureopheoerieopiroeir attacking their flanks.

I recieved no opportunities to use my cavalry effectively, their flanks and rear were always protected by cheap spearmen units and a very nasty generals bodyguard of heavy cavalry with 60-odd men and quite a bit of experience that i really did NOT want to engage until i absolutely had to... I rallied everything i could and formed a long line, hoping to eventually be able to encircle some of their army and thin out their numbers.. The triarii went in, head on against the mercenary hoplites, they fought hard and for about 30 minutes while the rallied units attacked the skirmishers defending their flanks, eventually i made a breakthrough on the left... A chance to send in my cavalry and break the left flank! I sent them in, 200 equittes, charged the read of one of the phalanxes, only to have my cavalry encircled by fresh spearmen and a unit of medium cvalry and promptly slaughtered and routed... I managed to route their cavalry with my spearmen and continued to hammer away at the flank, then... Disaster... They committed their fresh spearmen and peltastai and attacked my line of reserves, which were depleted and tired units of accensi and leves, they were promptly slaughtered, their general attacked mine and their superior heavy cavalry beat his bodyguard down to nothing until he fled the battlefield, leaving the last two units still holding up, the triarii, to be encircled and slaughtered.

The end results? 2500 dead Romans, less than 1000 dead Cartheginians, an entire legion destroyed save for a few ragtag men, (Like 100 or so) that made it back to Messana. My legion in the north busy defending against the Aediu, a new one will have to be raised which will take 5 turns to make, 2 to form up and 3 to get to Sicily... Then the AI let itself down by laying siege to rebel Syracuse with their now experienced army and general, rather than attacking Messana that was defended by only a shamed general who fled from battle, 100 or so men from hastati/principe units, and a full unit of leves... It would have been a pushover, but alas, the legion is raised and ready.

CARTHAGO DELENDA EST!

Even unmodded, in both RTW and MTW2 the AI likes to camp on hills. If you don't have time-limit turned on (and if you have enough time, then even if you do) I would suggest shooting until you run out of ammo. Slingers are very nasty, sort of like ancient crossbows, and lots of ammo. I would have shot until either they broke, they attacked or I ran out of ammo, and targeted the general so that the slingshots would shoot through the main lines and maybe hit a few heavy cavalry in the process.

The Romans can't really win a frontal attack on phalanxes, unless the phalanx is a low-tier unit and the romans are legionaries or principes, and even then, frontal attacks on phalanxes with anything but other phalanxes are not a good idea unless you quickly outflank, or have really softened them up with missiles first. Carthaginian phalanxes are pretty nasty too, if they had an army built around them, you probly needed 3+ missile units as well as your slingers, or else enough cavalry to overwhelm their general.

I have stood one unit of basic greek phalanx in the hole left from a battered down gate with wooden walls and seen off hundreds of eastern infantry and one general - without breaking, and without missile troops.

Riveting account nonetheless, though. I never use the huge unit setting becaus my system can't really handle it, but this is a good illustration of how much it adds to the game.

[gran_guitarra]

Something similar happened to me sieging the city just north of Arimium.

My forces were lead by a rookie general with little command, but consisted of huge amounts of troops (3 hastati, 3 principes, 4 triarii, three equites, my general, 3 ascenci, and three leves), fighting barbarians with a moderate amount of troops (2 Naked Fanatics, 2 swordsmen, some spearmen, and a heavy cavalry plus their general).

They rushed out of the gate, but only with one of the Swordsmen, whom my cavalry immediately slaughtered. They sent another one out, and agian my cavalry slaughtered them, but took a few casualties so I retreated.

Then they rushed all out with no strategy, at which point they met a huge hail of fire from all my units. They still charged on and eventuallly their battle line and mine of hastati and Principes merged. My cavalry charged theirs and killed off their heavy cavalry and was fighting their general, at which point they were reinforced with 2 units of Triarii. The other two went around the back and flanked the Gestarnae. Then I charged in the leves to support the rest of the battle line, and once their general was dead I sent the two Triarii who had dealt with him to destroy the Gestarnae.

To my great surprise their units did not run, and the Gestarnae actually killed off two units of Principes and four units of Triarii on their own. At this point most of my army routed and I had to give up the battle, though I fought to the last man.

My general later took a fully reinforced Legion of 6 Principes, 4 Triarii, 3 Ascenci, 3 Leves, and 3 Equites to take revenge on the city. They decided to simply surrender and offer the keys to the city to my general. For their submision I decided to merely enslave the populace, rather than Exterminate them as I wanted to.


btw, I don't know why you are complaining about Hastati. In my experience they are even more useful than Principes. I don't know why, but I find my Hastati rout less, after more time/losses, and handing out more losses to the enemy than my Principes do.

[antisocialmunky]

Its amazing what a handful of Nudists can do. In my campaign I'm going to have to eventually fight several untis of gold chevron Aedui Nudists which I'm not going to look forward to.

[abou]

I had to deal with a couple of them in my Lusotannan campaign. Solution was to set my light and medium spearmen in a straight line with "Defend" on and hide slingers and missile troops in the nearby trees.

Of course, it makes it easier when you have 6 units of Balearic slingers, but only a few should do.

[LennStar]

I had a bridge situation yesterday. Huge army on front, and a smaller (with 4 naked) on the rear. My 4 Principes defended the bridge (but none attacked. I think the AI waited for the reinforcements)
So 5 Hastati, 3 triarii, 4 slingers und a Elite Cavalry faught against 4 naked, 4 other spaer/swordsman und a 64 General Cavallery

The hastati formed a defensive line on a bit higher ground and the triarii were on stand-by
Because of the way the enemy reinforcements entered the battle, I couldn't bring the slingers in the back of the Gaesatea. I tried with the Cavalry. It worked more or less good, but I had to attack ~5 times to get even one unit down. On the left side of the line the "normal" units crushed into my hastati at one point. I marched one triarii there to hold the line.
Meanwhile the enemy general tried to attack my horses. I could retreat through the hastati-lines but losed a few horses to the now slim line of the naked.
Time had come for the triarii. They rushed in and tried to surround the enemy general. He escaped to the left flank that was already in bad condition. But the triarii following the general and the course of the battle changed. The first enemy unit on the left flank routed.
Then the general got more or less into the back of the 2 triarii that had chased him a while ago. I had hoped this and got my now nearly-regenerated horses into position and...
One minute later 30 enemy general cavalery had died and the general tried to flee. Unsuccessful.
The rest is standard: triarii und cavallery in the back, routing enemy. The right side broked, but the slingers were able to kill the last Gaesatea on their own because the naked werent able to run anymore.

The point is: 3 naked fanatics killed nearly 3 hastati while under constant rear-attack of a full elite cavallery and a small general! Only the speed of my slingers saved my defense line from an rear attack. If the big army on the other river-side had attacked I had lose the battle.