battle of Kokoda

[Warluster]

Hi all,

The Battle of Kokoda, sigh.

being an AUssie I know all about it. ANd I am sure so do sapi, CA, pevergreen and all other Aussies who visit this place know about that battle, otherwise you don't know a lot about Australias hsitory.

But I am just wondering, does everyone else know of it? I ahve heard some Americans claim it was their won battle or somehing (No one on the Guild) and I was angered, as this battle was between Australia and Japan.

Anyway. As most know, in 1942, Japan hadn't lost a battle. They were raging through the pacific like a wild fire through unkept grass. America was at threat, Australia was at major threat and so was most other countries around the pacific.

The AIF (Australian Imperial Force) was currently fighting for The Brits over in Africa, so they couldn't reinforce AUstralia.

And then it happened, the Phillipines fell, as did other major countries. The Japanese landed on the small island of Papua New Guniea, which is about a few hudnreds km of Aussies coast. And we were in major trouble.

Then it all went wrong, bombings started on most major cities along the East Coast of Aus, four Mini-Subs bombed Sydney Harbour, and 6000 Japanese headed inland at Papua (A Australian Vassal (sort of))

The AIF demanded that they return to AUstralia to defend Aus, as there was no-one or army defending it.

Old WInston Churchhill said that they'd have to lose Aus and get it back later. We said stuff it and hopped on boats and headed homes (D'know why they'd ask in the first palce)

But it was too late, the Japanese were nearly at Port Moresby(thats where they could sail to AUstralia) So the AUstralian prime Minister (I think it was Andrew Fischer) recruited 3 battalions of untrained,ill equipped soldiers and got ready to defend Papua new Guinea.

These un-trained soldiers (hardly any ammunition or guns) walked what is called the Kokoda Track, a 7 day walk (if your going fast) and on one of the steepest areas in the world.

And they reached where they were suppsoed to be, and allied with local people. And dug in.

it rained nearly every week, and mud was everywhere. The conditions were horrible and over 100 died just on the walk. ANd they still had to stopt the japanese.

They dug in, and got the name of Choccos, and the lcoals were Fuzzy-Wuzzies for the hair. And soon 6000 japanese attacked us
The next thign which happened was the msot amzing thing in AUstralian History, and a amzing thign of history of WWII in the Pacific. We won.

All japanese were killed, or suicided. After that the AIF reinforced the Choccos (who went back home) and secured Papua, then we went on to reclaim most islands taken by the Japanese, and link up with the AMericans, and everntually it was over.

All this equals one thing, the AMericans never went anyhwere near Papua New Guniea, Australia was the first to defeat the japanese, and it basiclly secured the defense of Australia and part vicotry over the japanese.

So how many knew of this valiant battle?

[Peasant Phill]

I for one never heard of it. I don't know much about the war in the Pacific except the most known battles.

Don't feel bad about it, why would someone from Belgium know anything about the bravery of your countrymen. I bet you don't know much about the bravery of my countrymen.

However, I can relate to the annoyance when some other country/people/culture takes or tries to take credit for achievements of the country/people/culture you're from.

[CountArach]

'course I know it, my great-grandfather fought in it.

As to the quality of the soldiers, I believe it was because they were conscripts. Conscripts could only fight on Australian soil in that war, and PNG was considered to be "Australian", so through a loop-hole our conscripts could be sent there.

Also, you may want to check this paragraph:

Then it all went wrong, bombings started on most major cities along the East Coast of Aus, four Mini-Subs bombed Sydney Harbour, and 6000 Japanese headed inland at Papua (A Australian Vassal (sort of))

1. Only Darwin was bombed, then it was evacuated.
2. There were 2 mini-subs at Sydney, and they didn't kill many people at all. I think they just sunk a ferry or something.

There was some good old fashioned Aussie Grit shown in that battle. Stories of people going back to save badly wounded comrades and coming within metres of the Japanese advance.

[Duke Malcolm]

I had heard something about the Aussies fighting off the Japanese in Papua New Guinea. Didn't quite know the details.

[Warluster]

@Ca: It was either 2 or 3 or 4, it sunk a ferry and hit one battleship killing 18 people.

SOme towns in Northern Queensland were bombed as well.

Was your great0grandfather one of the conscripts, or part of the AIF?

[CountArach]

I'm not sure actually, but I think he was a conscript. I'll get the story off my father some time.

[MilesGregarius]

I'm a Yank and I know all about the Kokoda Trail, but then I'm a history buff, so I'm hardly typical. Beyond D-Day, Pearl Harbor, and maybe Iwo Jima and/or the Bulge, most of my countrymen can't identify American battles, let alone non-American ones.

Taking nothing away from Australian accomplishments, the US was involved during the Buna-Gona battles following the Japanese withdrawal from the Kokoda Trail as well as later fighting in New Guinea (Hollandia and Biak).

Oh, and try to refrain from the term "Japs" . If you need an abbreviation for Japanese forces in WWII, try IJA (Imperial Japanese Army) or IJN (Imperial Japanese Navy).

[CBR]

Yes "japs" is considered offensive so please dont use that in the future.


CBR

[Warluster]

Sorry 'bout that, I will change it at once, I wasn't trying to offend anyone.

[Ja'chyra]

I for one never heard of it. I don't know much about the war in the Pacific except the most known battles.

Don't feel bad about it, why would someone from Belgium know anything about the bravery of your countrymen. I bet you don't know much about the bravery of my countrymen.

However, I can relate to the annoyance when some other country/people/culture takes or tries to take credit for achievements of the country/people/culture you're from.

Lol, you want to try being Scottish, the English take the credit for all the good stuff and blame us for all the bad stuff

[KARTLOS]

Lol, you want to try being Scottish, the English take the credit for all the good stuff and blame us for all the bad stuff

the other way round surely?

[KARTLOS]

Yes "japs" is considered offensive so please dont use that in the future.


CBR

why? sounds like political correctness gone mad, there is nothing intrinsicly offensive about it.

[CBR]

why? sounds like political correctness gone mad, there is nothing intrinsicly offensive about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jap and for more details on its use in literature
http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/jshoaf...ern/jappy2.htm

The narrator and the more cultured characters use the full word "Japanese." The use of the term usually establishes that the speaker is either uneducated (using the term as a casual, slangy substitute for the longer word), or is trying to dismiss or dehumanize the Japanese

And that is about its use more than 100 years ago. And same can be said for its modern day use IMO.

Call it political correctness gone mad if you like. But the Monastery is for civil discussions where all are welcome, incl posters who are Japanese or of Japanese descent, so a term that is described in a dictionary as: "Used as a disparaging term for a person of Japanese birth or descent" is not welcome here.


CBR

[Furious Mental]

Well the main reason it is now "derogatory" is that for decades it has been used by people of the WWII generation to refer to people whom they justifiably despised- i.e. the Imperial Japanese Army.

[Beren Son Of Barahi]

the chocos were not exactly conscripts, they were made up of town militias/national guards or sorts, and of the 3 sent, only 1 really did all that good, the 39th. which were from Victoria, the New south Wales battalion which was meant to hold the left flank on a bypass trial collapsed i think. the name "choco" was a a nickname the professional ADF soldiers gave to the reserves or militia as they were thought to be made of chocolate and would melt under the heat of battle.

America was invovled in another battle at the same time which held up the japenese navy which in turn stopped the japanese from encircling PNG. the American general in charge tried to use his marines in the finall battle in PNG, taking a very well defended beach head, with bunkers and swamps all around, when near 500 were left dead after the first attack and a stalemate was in place, he asked the Australian 39th battalion to take the beach head, which they did.

the battle of kokoda was really a battle of fighting retreats against horrible odds , over stretched supply lines and troppical jungle stress and illness.

i highly recommend a book called "kokoda" by peter fitzsimmons

[Watchman]

over stretched supply lines and troppical jungle stress and illness.

I'd be very surprised if those did not apply equally to the Japanese as well though.

[Vladimir]

the chocos were not exactly conscripts, they were made up of town militias/national guards or sorts, and of the 3 sent, only 1 really did all that good, the 39th. which were from Victoria, the New south Wales battalion which was meant to hold the left flank on a bypass trial collapsed i think. the name "choco" was a a nickname the professional ADF soldiers gave to the reserves or militia as they were thought to be made of chocolate and would melt under the heat of battle.

Could we not use the word "choco"? It is offensive and:

The use of the term usually establishes that the speaker is either uneducated (using the term as a casual, slangy substitute for the longer word), or is trying to dismiss or dehumanize the...

I know modern Tommies, Yanks, and Krauts would never use such language.

Good info Warluster.

It was difficult to read your post at times with it's numerous typographical errors. If something like this is really important to you it's vital to present it in a way that shows you truly care about the subject. A link would also help. Aussies (whoops, I did it again) had a habit of popping up just where you needed them in WW II and offered some exclusive services in Vietnam. Reminders like this are good to have.

[Warluster]

Awesome feedback everyone!

Also in response to the posts about the word 'Jap', I have edited it out, but over here we don't consider it offensive as that.

1.It WILL be offensive if you go up to a japanese person and go 'your a jap' as that would be ultimate offense and ery rude and naughty.

2.But using it the way I did was oaky.

To prove my reasoning, the oter day at our ANZAC day service, one of the WW II Veterans called the Japanese soldiers 'Japs'.

[Basileus]

Ive never read about the battle but i watched a film last year i think about this specific battle, pretty good film i must say though i dont remember the name.

[Warluster]

There is only one film about the Battle of Kokoda and that is called Kokoda! lol.

[Furious Mental]

"Jap" is really no different to "Pom", "Yank", or "Kiwi", and people use it in the same neutral sense all the time here- e.g. "I like Jap food". There is nothing inherently offensive about it, unless one considers every euphemism for a nationality to be offensive. It just happens to have arisen in the context of mutual animosity.

[Vladimir]

"Jap" is really no different to "Pom", "Yank", or "Kiwi", and people use it in the same neutral sense all the time here- e.g. "I like Jap food". There is nothing inherently offensive about it, unless one considers every euphemism for a nationality to be offensive. It just happens to have arisen in the context of mutual animosity.

Context is important. That and intent.

[Furious Mental]

Point is there is nothing inherently antagonistic and offensive about it. Some people, usually not from here, interpret it to carry such a meaning because they associate its usage with WWII.

[Beren Son Of Barahi]

double post..... sorry

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I'd be very surprised if those did not apply equally to the Japanese as well though.

I was including both sides in that, the Japanese, fought hard to a breaking point and then fought a bitter fighting retreat over the bloodied ground they had just spent months taking inch by inch. as there was no real access to sea ports and then only drop zone was lost early on in the war, everything from men, to supplies were taking up in the hills by foot.

and to Vald. The term "choco" has nothing to do with race, regilion or creed. it was a term coined by most white professional soldiers for militias made up for mostly white men. it is not offensive, and during/after the fighting the common respect for each other was very high.

[Beren Son Of Barahi]

I'd be very surprised if those did not apply equally to the Japanese as well though.

I was including both sides in that, the Japanese, fought hard to a breaking point and then fought a bitter fighting retreat over the bloodied ground they had just spent months taking inch by inch. as there was no real access to sea ports and then only drop zone was lost early on in the war, everything from men, to supplies were taking up in the hills by foot.

and to Vald. The term "choco" has nothing to do with race, religion or creed. it was a term coined by most white professional soldiers for militias made up for mostly white men. it is not offensive, and during/after the fighting the common respect for each other was very high.

[Vladimir]

and to Vald. The term "choco" has nothing to do with race, religion or creed. it was a term coined by most white professional soldiers for militias made up for mostly white men. it is not offensive, and during/after the fighting the common respect for each other was very high.

I thought that the yanks, brits, and krauts comment would make the sarcasm obvious.