Misellenes

[Watchman]

So basically the southern Greeks regarded their northern cousins as a bunch of savages barely fluent in "proper" Greek, and said rustic cousins returned the sentiment by regarding their more urbane southern kin as decadent wimps - standard neighbourly/brotherly love, in other words.

Bet you it took a long time before the different Latin tribes stopped looking down on their noses at each other and began to regard themselves as collectively "Roman" as opposed to something else, too.

[meliritos]

Everyone should watch out when one does a mod because what one uses in game may be misinterpeted from someone who isnt Greek and doesnt know the facts of Greek history. Your remark there about "miselenes" indeed could cause confusion to everyone but Greeks.You could have a trait that says for example thet "he doesnt believe in the need of unity among Greek people". That would be more accurate.

[Watchman]

I'm rather under the impression the chronically independent-minded southern Greeks of the poleis were major nonbelievers in "need of unity among Greek people" as well (nevermind now being somewhat leery of counting even Thessalians into that category)... the Maks and Epirotes with their traditions of reasonably central monarchical rule were actually probably way more amiable to that idea in general terms.

[Agiselaos]

keravnos and merilitos are right you should put another term and not missellen even though it's more accurate.Furthermore how people who had greek names,spoke a dialect of greek and wanted to unite not (subdue) the southern Greeks were not Greek i don't understand.Remember the shields which Alexander send to Athenians after his first victories against the Persians what was written upon them (Alexander and The Greeks Except Spartan from The Barbarians(no offense) who dwell on Asia),he didn't write Alexander, Macedonians and Greeks.... this shows us that he and other macedonians considered themselves as Hellenic.As For the relationship with the other Hellenes look how Germans,French and English had many wars and hated it each other even though they all are of Germanic origin

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

This is a huge argument that streches from before the Trojan War until present day. Plus, many people have strong emotions and are quite invested in it.

Simply put, Macedonians weren't nessicarily the same exact people as "the Greeks". "The Greeks" would often think that they were inferior and didn't like them due to their dialect (which Philip switched to Attic Greek anyways, so their language differences were not an issue in our time period), culture, and different traditions. Of course, you have to keep in mind that "the Greeks" thought less of everyone: the Persians, the Egyptians, the Etruscans, even other Greek cities when they felt like it.

The Makedonians were probably the same race of people, though not "pure" like the Southern Greeks due to their proximity to other peoples.

Even though, it may be argued now that they are the same people, at the time they didn't nessicarily think so. The southern Greeks didn't like the Makedonian (or the even Thessalians all that much, for that matter) and there was some discrimination. And the Makedonians returned that disdane.

And remember people, names, racial locations, and likes & dislikes of today don't have nessicarily anything to do with people, names, racial locations, and likes & dislikes of the game's time.

[Watchman]

Furthermore how people who had greek names,spoke a dialect of greek and wanted to unite not (subdue) the southern Greeks were not Greek i don't understand.Remember the shields which Alexander send to Athenians after his first victories against the Persians what was written upon them (Alexander and The Greeks Except Spartan from The Barbarians(no offense) who dwell on Asia),he didn't write Alexander, Macedonians and Greeks.... this shows us that he and other macedonians considered themselves as Hellenic.

Having just subjugated Hellas the Macedonians obviously had a rather pressing vested interest in the idea of "Greek unity" (their own sense of superiority nonwithstanding; I've read of an interesting duel fought between a Greek athlete and a Macedonian pezhetairos which well illustrated the tensions), which so far as I know the denizens of the peninsula, fiercely proud of their separate communal identities as they were, didn't want anything to do with.

Fat lot of good it did them. The poleis revolted pretty much en masse the second they heard Alex was dead, were again subdued by the Diadochi (who weren't yet at that point at each others' throats; it should incidentally tell something that most if not all of them were of Macedonian origin...), and tried again with more success once said potentates were busy with each other.

One does have to keep in mind that beyond rather local and regional levels and some very vague associations due to (nominally, thanks to innumerable local dialects and patois) shared language and culture people simply did not very much identify with something so abstract as "nationality", save for defining their own general reference group from others in rather general terms. That sort of thing is by and large very much a modern, post 1800s phenomenom.

[Tretii]

Chill out pc people. It is just a game.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

We should "watch out"? If people want to interpret things wrongly, it's not our fault. People can take their modern political views and roll them up into a really tight little wad and... well, I don't think we care too much. Every single one of these people were racially biased against every single other one of these people. That was life. The misellen trait doesn't have to do with 'not believing in a need for unity of greek people', it has to do with having contempt for (use 'other' here if you like or don't, it doesn't matter to me) greeks. Other greeks had contempt for the maks. Achaeans/Ionians had contempt for dorians and they had it for them too. Anyone who thinks that anyone with a drop of greek blood lived in hippie-flowers-in-their-hair harmony with everyone else who had a drop of greek blood is bleeding nutty.