Don't get a P5GZ-MX!!!

[Crian]

I think I now know why my freakin' new shiny rig is running Medieval 2 at an
abysmal 5 frames per sec.... it's my $#^*)!@% motherboard!!!! Curses! Curses!

Mine is an ASUS P5GZ-MX, at first I thought I got an excellent deal! It has Core2Duo support, DDR2 compatible and PCI-E, and I thought this should be fine!! (Don't blame me I was on a tight budget) I installed Medieval 2 and it was running RIDICULOUSLY slow, even at low settings for my more-than-adequate rig (It's a Core 2 E6400 for crying out loud! And a 7600 GT!). My friend's PC was an E6300 and he had a 7300 GS and the game was smooth as silk on modest settings, so I was expecting better performance from my own rig.

D*mn, didn't do my research before cashing in on this cheap motherboard, it turns out that the darn thing has some kind of limit on the CPU, so my shiny Core2 is actually running at only 1.6 Ghz, and it doesn't end there! The PCI-E slot turns out has a limit of only 4X... so my card is running at a speed that's actually slower than AGP8X!!!

AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

You might be able to adjust the settings for it, though I don't know.

I have the P5B, and it seems to work fine...

Excellent sig quote, Freespace 2 rocks.

[LeftEyeNine]

Well as it states here, that gadget has chipset limitation on FSB being 800 rather than the C2D standard 1000 MHz (IIRC).

However I don't see any limitations on PCI-e, but I noticed that this motherboard has an on-board VGA.

So, Crian, are you sure that you disabled on-board VGA from Integrated Peripherals settings of your BIOS ?

[Husar]

my PCI-express is also limited to 4x and I don't get lots of lag with my 7950GT, according to a test I once saw the difference between PCI-e x16 and x4 is just 6%, which cannot be the difference between lots of lag or smooth play.
However, my mainboard supports an FSB of 1066MHz so the CPU runs fine like it's supposed to.and I can play on almost highest settings.
Which rules out the PCI-e x4 being at fault IMO.
you should also check what LEN mentioned, maybe you're accidentally using the onboard graphics? Though you should usually have noticed this since I guess they have a different monitor connector and different drivers etc.

And I wonder why a mainboard with FSB 800 is called ready for Core 2 Duo? Are you sure there's no jumper to activate a higher FSB? Or maybe a newer BIOS? Or you got an older revision that is not yet compliant? Lot's of things which could be wrong, check the manual first for jumper settings etc.

[LeftEyeNine]

And I wonder why a mainboard with FSB 800 is called ready for Core 2 Duo? Are you sure there's no jumper to activate a higher FSB? Or maybe a newer BIOS? Or you got an older revision that is not yet compliant? Lot's of things which could be wrong, check the manual first for jumper settings etc.

Well mainly those that were manufactured for Core Duos were re-released with revised versions (or packages) or were supplied with BIOS updates to enable Core 2 Duos for them as well. Since it was just a software modification, chipset's FSB speed was not adjusted which would need a re-manufacture and would actually make it a new mobo model if done.

[Crian]

Alexander - Dude, the P5B is an awesome motherboard, we're not exactly in the same boat here And yeah long live FS2!

LEN - I saw that too, that FSB limit is a real bummer. Yep I sure turned off the onboard graphics.... So the PCI-e is not a problem? QUESTION: If my motherboard has an interface of PCI-E X16, does my card need to have a PCI-E X16 interface as well to take advantage of the speed? I kind of remember that AGP cards need to match with the motherboard's interface speed to take advantage of X4, X8,... etc.

Husar - Really it doesn't make much of a difference? Maybe its because your card is so much better than mine.

[Crian]

Well as it states here, that gadget has chipset limitation on FSB being 800 rather than the C2D standard 1000 MHz (IIRC).

However I don't see any limitations on PCI-e, but I noticed that this motherboard has an on-board VGA.

So, Crian, are you sure that you disabled on-board VGA from Integrated Peripherals settings of your BIOS ?

Hmmm... I reread your post and I remember that I disabled the onboard VGA from the device manager in Windows XP itself, so is that different from doing it in BIOS? Is it actually still "on" and I have to shut it through BIOS?

[Crian]

And I wonder why a mainboard with FSB 800 is called ready for Core 2 Duo? Are you sure there's no jumper to activate a higher FSB? Or maybe a newer BIOS? Or you got an older revision that is not yet compliant? Lot's of things which could be wrong, check the manual first for jumper settings etc.

Yup I checked, the mobo tops at 800 Mhz, it's even stated in the ASUS website the Core 2 Duo CPUs won't go faster than that. The BIOS is also older but revising it won't change anything because it's a hardware limitation, unfrtunately.

[LeftEyeNine]

Hmmm... I reread your post and I remember that I disabled the onboard VGA from the device manager in Windows XP itself, so is that different from doing it in BIOS? Is it actually still "on" and I have to shut it through BIOS?

Do it from the BIOS please and shoot your feedback after re-installing drivers for your PCI-e graphics card.

In case you're interested, here's a guide to a clean re-install (although intended for modified drivers, you can use the method to make a clean re-install of plain drivers)

Good luck.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

lexander - Dude, the P5B is an awesome motherboard, we're not exactly in the same boat here

A P5B is a bottom of the line asus board no? I had that in my last pc and it cost under $100 I think. My P5H HS Deluxe blows it away

[Husar]

Well mainly those that were manufactured for Core Duos were re-released with revised versions (or packages) or were supplied with BIOS updates to enable Core 2 Duos for them as well. Since it was just a software modification, chipset's FSB speed was not adjusted which would need a re-manufacture and would actually make it a new mobo model if done.

IIRC the Core Duo had a new power requirement and calling a board Core 2 Duo ready if a Core 2 Duo won't even run at native speed on that board is quite a bad thing to do IMO. I'd give it back and demand a refund or so.

Husar - Really it doesn't make much of a difference? Maybe its because your card is so much better than mine.

Actually, a faster card should suffer more under such a bandwidth limit, so if the limit was a problem, I'd have more of a problem than you.
And almost all cards should be PCI-e x16, if it fits on the board, the board has an x16 slot, but the slot may just use PCIe x4 bandwidth, which means the data transfer will be slower but apart from that there shouldn't be any compatibility problem, some good boards go back to PCIe x8 for each card when using SLI with two cards, so that shouldn't cause any problems.

[Crian]

A P5B is a bottom of the line asus board no? I had that in my last pc and it cost under $100 I think. My P5H HS Deluxe blows it away

Oh really? I must've been thinking of another board... The P5B E, I think? Never mind!

[Crian]

I solved my problem.... I went back to the store and convinced them to change the motherboard. I got myself an Asus P52N Le, a pretty good motherboard for the price .

Medieval 2 now runs quite smoothly, 1280X1024, high everything, 4Xaa and 4XAF. Sweeeet .... thanks for the replies everyone.

LEN - I saw your driver guide and it's awesome! Improved my framerates significantly thanks to that, cheers! And thank you very much!

[LeftEyeNine]

LEN - I saw your driver guide and it's awesome! Improved my framerates significantly thanks to that, cheers! And thank you very much!

[Husar]

I solved my problem.... I went back to the store and convinced them to change the motherboard. I got myself an Asus P52N Le, a pretty good motherboard for the price .

Medieval 2 now runs quite smoothly, 1280X1024, high everything, 4Xaa and 4XAF. Sweeeet .... thanks for the replies everyone.

LEN - I saw your driver guide and it's awesome! Improved my framerates significantly thanks to that, cheers! And thank you very much!

Makes me wonder whether the 6% difference still applies when AA and AF are turned on because with high AA it doesn't run all that smooth for me anymore, especially with lots of units.
Maybe it's time to finally get a better mainboard for my rig?
(I know, I know, have been planning that for months, but those things aren't cheap cheap and I have some other bigger payments coming up in the next months)

[Crian]

Makes me wonder whether the 6% difference still applies when AA and AF are turned on because with high AA it doesn't run all that smooth for me anymore, especially with lots of units.
Maybe it's time to finally get a better mainboard for my rig?
(I know, I know, have been planning that for months, but those things aren't cheap cheap and I have some other bigger payments coming up in the next months)

Buy the board that I got! ASUS P5LD2 SE, I think it's great for the price, what's your build anyway? Maybe you should turn off bloom, that also improved performance for me.

Check it out here. I browsed around for prices and it's about 40-50 Pounds. The reviews I saw said it's good enough for basic stuff but not for serious building (eg. 2 GPUs, overclocking, lots of RAM...), which is too expensive anyway.

It's good enough for my purposes, it runs the programs I need and the games I want, all that at a good price.

[Husar]

I have an AsRock 775Dual-VSTA and have an eye on this.
But like I said, there are other issues first, the AsRock board runs fine so far.

[Crian]

Oh I see, I should've expected that your existing board is more or less at par or better than mine.

I agree that you're gonna have to wait for that one, though. It's pretty high-end. As for me, my current setup, while "minimal" by gaming standards, should last me for a good number of years more . Good luck to you.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Well I think the one i got is one of the best for core 2 duo's, How does a Asus P5W DH Deluxe stack up vs your P5N-E SLI

[Husar]

Well I think the one i got is one of the best for core 2 duo's, How does a Asus P5W DH Deluxe stack up vs your P5N-E SLI

I think the main difference between a board for 60EUR/$ and one for 120EUR/$ is that the cheaper board has a few drawbacks, like my board supports only SATA 150 and PCIe x4, but then again, they can be good to upgrade, my board has AGP and DDR1 as well. The 120 range board is bad for upgrading because it has only the newest standards so if you have some old tech still lying around that could be of use, you'll still have to buy new stuff and not everybody can afford that, apart from that a 120EUR/$ board should have everything the average user needs.

If you pay a fortune of >200EUR/$ for your board, you'll get something for overclockers with all the additional stuff the average user will never need anyway, like full SLI capability, dual Gigabit-LAN, maybe even a better onboard soundcard etc. I don't think that the expensive board will give you better framerates given the same CPU, graphicscard and RAM, it should just allow you to overclock them better.

And that's why I, having a limited budget, would never pay 300EUR for a mainboard, I remember some years ago the best mainboards would not even cost 200, they really pushed the prices up on these things.