All babies go to heaven !

[doc_bean]

says vatican


Well, perhaps I'm going to have to revise my opinion on Pope Benedict a bit. I would have figured he would be more the type to damn all those little souls (well, damn to limbo at least) and reinforce the importance of baptism to get into heaven.

This would also mean that non-christian/non-catholic babies can get into heaven, which leaves open the door for a (more) secular form of Catholicism, just when I was afraid Benedict wanted to take us back to the dark ages.

[Adrian II]

Are there many Belgians left who take the Vatican serious?

[doc_bean]

Are there many Belgians left who take the Vatican serious?

Errr...probably not.

Though West Flanders still has an active Catholic community, the influence of the Vatican itself is minor I believe. In the rest of the country it's mostly the older people who still go to church. There are some 'new' younger believers, but protestantism seems to be more popular with those (they tend to be alternative types, so I guess they'd want an alternative religion too).

Of course, I'm from Antwerp (the region anyway), a traditional secular/atheist haven, so I might have a wrong picture of the rest of the country. (see my other post in the 'speak Durch... ' thread on how isolationist we tend to be.)

[Kanamori]

Good, now that they've had that question lifted off our consciences we can all go back to relaxing.

[Ronin]

not that I give a damn...

but I find it funny how they just change their minds from one day to another....

I mean....wasn´t the former position of the church supposed to be God´s position?

so what happen?....did he call them in the bat-phone and say he changed his mind or what???

[InsaneApache]

bat-phone! ROFLOL

[Grey_Fox]

I thought this has been practice for the last couple of decades?

[doc_bean]

not that I give a damn...

but I find it funny how they just change their minds from one day to another....

Theologians have been studying the issue at least as far back as 1984 before they came to this conclusion.

I mean....wasn´t the former position of the church supposed to be God´s position?

so what happen?....did he call them in the bat-phone and say he changed his mind or what???

Welcome to the wonderful world of Catholicism

[Pannonian]

Welcome to the wonderful world of Catholicism

That's the great thing about Catholicism - it's so vague. No-one knows what it's really all about.
- Father Ted Crilly

[Bijo]

Can he prove it?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Holy Mother Church moves forward at a spiritual and not a temporal pace.

Since the Lord rarely chooses direct conversation, part of the journey of spiritual growth is using our poor and imperfect powers of understanding to come closer and closer to Him [my use of the masculine pronoun is traditional, I suspect any male/female designation is actually irrelevant].

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Well I must admit the title of this thread threw me off. Then when I saw the Vatican link I was like what the hell is this. I was raised Catholic and we were always taught that all babies go to heaven. Then I read the article and the part about them not being baptised. Well that sort of made sense. It was just a way of making people become Catholic in the old days. Well I guess nowdays as well. However this has never been the official doctrine of the church. They had no doctrine on it. Now they do.


PS Notice what his stement says

pe Benedict XVI has revised traditional Roman Catholic teaching on so-called "limbo," approving a church report released Friday that said there was reason to hope that babies who die without baptism can go to heaven.

He didnt say they will. Maybe he lacks faith

[Rodion Romanovich]

errr... does this mean I can get my money back for the indulgences I bought?

[Divinus Arma]

It relates to a similar perspective which states that those who haven't been exposed to the Gospel cannot be damned, because the opportunity for salvation was never presented to no fault of their own.

Which, as logic would reply, means that total ignorance of the Gospel innoculates one from damnation.

[Strike For The South]

It relates to a similar perspective which states that those who haven't been exposed to the Gospel cannot be damned, because the opportunity for salvation was never presented to no fault of their own.

Which, as logic would reply, means that total ignorance of the Gospel innoculates one from damnation.

Correct

[Divinus Arma]

Which of course demonstrates the total absurdity of the existential perspective of the Roman Catholic Church and its splinter organizations.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Which, as logic would reply, means that total ignorance of the Gospel innoculates one from damnation.

Sweet!

[Adrian II]

Which, as logic would reply, means that total ignorance of the Gospel innoculates one from damnation.

IN that case I am pretty sure Benedict himself is inoculated.

[Ronin]

Which of course demonstrates the total absurdity of the existential perspective of the Roman Catholic Church and its splinter organizations.

exactly!

if they wanted to ensure "salvation" for everyone they would simply stop preaching and disband...

no one hears about the gospel......everyone goes to heaven....

[Kralizec]

exactly!

if they wanted to ensure "salvation" for everyone they would simply stop preaching and disband...

no one hears about the gospel......everyone goes to heaven....

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Catholics believe that salvation is attained through faith and good works - if lack of the former would be unculpable, there's still the other...

[Husar]

Well, that's basically what I was told since Jesus said "Let the kids come to me."
Nice to know the pope found that out as well, if he goes on with that speed, he may still finish reading the bible in his lifetime.

[Fisherking]

Oh well, it is nice that they finally got something right don't you think?

[Xiahou]

It relates to a similar perspective which states that those who haven't been exposed to the Gospel cannot be damned, because the opportunity for salvation was never presented to no fault of their own.

Which, as logic would reply, means that total ignorance of the Gospel innoculates one from damnation.

Nope.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Catholics believe that salvation is attained through faith and good works - if lack of the former would be unculpable, there's still the other...

[The Spartan (Returns)]

as a Catholic,

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

if a die a baby, do i have to enjoy heaven as a baby? that would be quite dull.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

LOL.

This is old news though, 9 months to a year.

[Kralizec]

LOL.

This is old news though, 9 months to a year.

Well it obviously only applies to people conveived after the revision.

[InsaneApache]

Who is this Jesus, of which you speak?

[OK I'm in]

[Ronin]

Well it obviously only applies to people conveived after the revision.

of course.....God is all forgiving...but a contract is a contract folks!!!

[Vladimir]

errr... does this mean I can get my money back for the indulgences I bought?

Did you keep the receipt? The Church is very good at keeping records.

[Papewaio]

Which, as logic would reply, means that total ignorance of the Gospel innoculates one from damnation.

Religions tend to from time to time split into two broad camps, organised seekers of the human soul vs organised willful ignorance. The first creates some of the greatest works of art and ideas in human existence the later tends to make bonfires of them.

So ignorance and religion have a time honoured tradition of embrace and conflict.